2017 Subaru BRZ Facelift

[NLS8520]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What? Other than some doodads and a bumper they are the same car.

I can not be sure, however I think he means the overall look of the refreshed BRZ as a whole vs the 86, and the performance package availability.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NLS8520

I can not be sure, however I think he means the overall look of the refreshed BRZ as a whole vs the 86, and the performance package availability.

Oh I will certainly agree in the looks part. The brakes and wheels that make up the performance package will likely show up on the 86 when they drop the monospec thing for the 18s so that does give the BRZ a year jump on them.

[NissanGuy]

Has anyone found pictures of the new exhuast manifold?

It might be the same as the 14R60, since that too had a new manifold and pretty much the same power. Also, no pics.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What? Other than some doodads and a bumper they are the same car.

Plus there will likely be suspension tuning differences that impact handling as with the current models.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Plus there will likely be suspension tuning differences that impact handling as with the current models.

But that would be a matter of preference and not blowing the 86 away. There have always been differences in the suspension between the two but they are not huge and most people would never know the difference anyway.
None of these relatively minor points makes them two totally different cars as was implied.
The new 86 front end still remains butt ugly though.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dark

Not quite understand what you implied. In theory where all things equal, increase in torque means increase in overall performance. Not only that AP2 has better torque, it also has better gearing. In a simple term, it can likely achieve better 0-60 time. If you care about wringing the engine to the redline, AP1 is probably a better engine, but at legal speed (or slightly over legal), AP2 engine is better.

The more usable power in the AP2 was good only for daily driving but overall both cars still had the same acceleration in performance test therefore the AP2 wasn't necessarily quicker because of the added .2 liters of displacement.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The more usable power in the AP2 was good only for daily driving but overall both cars still had the same acceleration in performance test therefore the AP2 wasn't necessarily quicker because of the added .2 liters of displacement.

I'd imagine this will be similar to the revised 86 engine. Although I bet the 0-60 will be improved from the final drive

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But that would be a matter of preference and not blowing the 86 away. There have always been differences in the suspension between the two but they are not huge and most people would never know the difference anyway.

Certainly the handling differences were only seen at or near the limit. Randy Pobst, driving at that limit, found the FR-S more tail-happy and preferred the stability of the BRZ. But that was before the first adjustments had been made by Toyota to the FR-S's suspension, they may be closer in their handling characteristics today than 3-4 years ago.

There was a ride quality difference a few comparative reviews found as well, I can't remember which was deemed more compliant. That you would notice more readily.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The more usable power in the AP2 was good only for daily driving but overall both cars still had the same acceleration in performance test therefore the AP2 wasn't necessarily quicker because of the added .2 liters of displacement.

I have no idea they still have the same performance as I spoke hypothesis . If that's the case, Honda probably add more rotational weight/weight/resistance somewhere.

[Stratoside]

Originally Posted by raven1231

What is everyone arguing about? The new 86 (facelift) is what it is, love it or hate it. If you're not happy with the changes that absolutely fine, just don't buy it. Talking about what old cars did or didn't have won't change that.

1. people are expressing their opinions, what's wrong with that?
2. ya, i'm waiting for 2017 BRZ instead since 86 is ugly now
3. if significant amount of people are dissatisfied with the product, the manufacturer will try to make it better next time, so yes it can potentially change it for the future

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Stratoside

1. people are expressing their opinions, what's wrong with that?
2. ya, i'm waiting for 2017 BRZ instead since 86 is ugly now
3. if significant amount of people are dissatisfied with the product, the manufacturer will try to make it better next time, so yes it can potentially change it for the future

Sure but arguing about what old cars did or didn't have is useless...

[goldenfri]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The more usable power in the AP2 was good only for daily driving but overall both cars still had the same acceleration in performance test therefore the AP2 wasn't necessarily quicker because of the added .2 liters of displacement.

As an owner of both an AP1 and an AP2, I can tell you that the AP2 has both more power and way more torque in the midrange than the AP1. It also has better gearing and these add up to a much faster car on the track and in autox, that said all this S2000 talk is getting very off topic. :-P

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

As an owner of both an AP1 and an AP2, I can tell you that the AP2 has both more power and way more torque in the midrange than the AP1. It also has better gearing and these add up to a much faster car on the track and in autox, that said all this S2000 talk is getting very off topic. :-P

This was my point lol. Hate on the new 86, or love it but the S2000 has literally nothing to do with it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Sure but arguing about what old cars did or didn't have is useless...

Loved the manual choke on my 58 Chev and think they should go back to that. I felt much more in touch with the car and had full control over what the engine was doing.
The vacuum powered windshield wipers sucked but were entertaining as hell.