2017 Subaru BRZ Facelift

[echo419]

brakes are for quitters.

[Juvenile]

Sorry if repost but I'm not going through 60 pages , I would for a 86 though

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGSu2qBzFgs"]New 2017 Subaru BRZ Facelift - YouTube[/ame]

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by echo419

brakes are for quitters.

Reminds of that Jeremy Clarkson saying about how suddenly becoming stationary kills you, and it's not speed.

LOL

[Mim]

Sadly the killjoy's managing what's allowed to be shown in car adds here would be quick to label that video as depicting hooning, dangerous, speeding, reckless and irresponsible driving. I'm sure I left a few out, but you probably get the point.

No wonder neither Subaru or Toyota bother making any adds for their respective twin in our market.

[irax]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Still missing the point.

No, your point is that in the past automotive makers were not known to increase hp in the same generation.

And you gave examples in which you thought made your point. But you were wrong.

84-86 MR2 came NA only
87 had the option for a supercharger going from 114 to 140 hp. SIGNIFICANT POWER INCREASE for a car that light.

The Miata in 2004 got the optional turbo charger
Going from 135HP to 180HP.

The S2000 got an increase in torque and change of power band when it went from a 2.0 to a 2.2

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The S2000 never had a power increase
The Miata never had a power increase in generation
The RX8 never had a power increase
The MR2 never had a power increase in generation

I SAID GOOD DAY

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by irax

No, your point is that in the past automotive makers were not known to increase hp in the same generation.

And you gave examples in which you thought made your point. But you were wrong.

84-86 MR2 came NA only
87 had the option for a supercharger going from 114 to 140 hp. SIGNIFICANT POWER INCREASE for a car that light.

The Miata in 2004 got the optional turbo charger
Going from 135HP to 180HP.

The S2000 got an increase in torque and change of power band when it went from a 2.0 to a 2.2



I SAID GOOD DAY

You seem to be not getting it still. You keep mentioning OPTIONAL ENGINES while the main engines had no increases and with the S2000 the HORSEPOWER was the same despite a 10-12 lb ft of torque increase. Matter of fact the 2.2 S2000 was still as quick as the old one because the old one could rev higher and still make the same power. My POINT that you seem to be missing is the power upgrades is so insignificant in the cars mentioned that it baffles my mind that you folks on here expect to see a BIG DIFFERENCE from the ONLY engine in the 86 lineup. We were never promised an optional engine like the MR2 or 2nd gen Miata. If our cars had a optional engine the conversation would be moot. I'm just sick of hearing people complain that the FA20 needs to be bumped up 40hp when a ton of other cars that came before it barely had any REAL increases to write home about. Now people clamoring for a optional engine is a different story. I'm done trying to explain that the cars won't come with a power difference that will be S2000 fighter worthy.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You seem to be not getting it still. You keep mentioning OPTIONAL ENGINES while the main engines had no increases and with the S2000 the HORSEPOWER was the same despite a 10-12 lb ft of torque increase. Matter of fact the 2.2 S2000 was still as quick as the old one because the old one could rev higher and still make the same power. My POINT that you seem to be missing is the power upgrades is so insignificant in the cars mentioned that it baffles my mind that you folks on here expect to see a BIG DIFFERENCE from the ONLY engine in the 86 lineup. We were never promised an optional engine like the MR2 or 2nd gen Miata. If our cars had a optional engine the conversation would be moot. I'm just sick of hearing people complain that the FA20 needs to be bumped up 40hp when a ton of other cars that came before it barely had any REAL increases to write home about. Now people clamoring for a optional engine is a different story. I'm done trying to explain that the cars won't come with a power difference that will be S2000 fighter worthy.

You're right, it needs about 50 more wheel horsepower standard.....

[SUB-FT86]

It sucks how the manual gets a shorter FD than the 6AT that needs it the most. I guarantee that the FD will make more of an acceleration difference than the crappy 5hp/5tq even if that power is throughout the ENTIRE powerband which I doubt(might be more prominent after 4k rpms).

[dylanbove]

Have not seen much on the 86 yet, but if what i saw was legit, Subaru is definitely blowing it out of the water...

[Dark]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You seem to be not getting it still. You keep mentioning OPTIONAL ENGINES while the main engines had no increases and with the S2000 the HORSEPOWER was the same despite a 10-12 lb ft of torque increase. Matter of fact the 2.2 S2000 was still as quick as the old one because the old one could rev higher and still make the same power. My POINT that you seem to be missing is the power upgrades is so insignificant in the cars mentioned that it baffles my mind that you folks on here expect to see a BIG DIFFERENCE from the ONLY engine in the 86 lineup. We were never promised an optional engine like the MR2 or 2nd gen Miata. If our cars had a optional engine the conversation would be moot. I'm just sick of hearing people complain that the FA20 needs to be bumped up 40hp when a ton of other cars that came before it barely had any REAL increases to write home about. Now people clamoring for a optional engine is a different story. I'm done trying to explain that the cars won't come with a power difference that will be S2000 fighter worthy.

I think you wanted to say "peak" horsepower.

HP = TQ x RPM / 5252

Of course increasing 20lb-ft increases hp. It just didn't increase the "peak" hp. AP2 is so much better for daily driving because of the fatter tq.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dark

I think you wanted to say "peak" horsepower.

HP = TQ x RPM / 5252

Of course increasing 20lb-ft increases hp. It just didn't increase the "peak" hp. AP2 is so much better for daily driving because of the fatter tq.

That's true but did that better daily driving increase in the powerband benefited the overall performance? No. I could understand if the 2.2 actually made like 265hp along with the better midrange and it posted a 0-60 in 5 seconds flat time. I feel that's what most guys want from the 86 cars and it just ain't gonna happen. I guess I have just become jaded after 6 years on this forum.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by dylanbove

Have not seen much on the 86 yet, but if what i saw was legit, Subaru is definitely blowing it out of the water...

What? Other than some doodads and a bumper they are the same car.

[raven1231]

What is everyone arguing about? The new 86 (facelift) is what it is, love it or hate it. If you're not happy with the changes that absolutely fine, just don't buy it. Talking about what old cars did or didn't have won't change that.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That's true but did that better daily driving increase in the powerband benefited the overall performance? No. I could understand if the 2.2 actually made like 265hp along with the better midrange and it posted a 0-60 in 5 seconds flat time. I feel that's what most guys want from the 86 cars and it just ain't gonna happen. I guess I have just become jaded after 6 years on this forum.

Not quite understand what you implied. In theory where all things equal, increase in torque means increase in overall performance. Not only that AP2 has better torque, it also has better gearing. In a simple term, it can likely achieve better 0-60 time. If you care about wringing the engine to the redline, AP1 is probably a better engine, but at legal speed (or slightly over legal), AP2 engine is better.