Innovate (Sprintex) Supercharger Owners Topic

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by tzbang

How much oil does this SC drink roughly? And what kind of oil do you have to keep feeding it? I’m also wondering how bad sucking in oil into the intake must be for the motor...

Mine doesn't use any. IIRC that 70W90 is the recommended oil for the unit.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by tzbang

How much oil does this SC drink roughly? And what kind of oil do you have to keep feeding it? I’m also wondering how bad sucking in oil into the intake must be for the motor...

So far none.
75W90 NS gear oil
I use tribodyn
Not that bad, depending on how much, a lot of air filters are oiled and will “leak” oil a little overtime not that big of deal. As long as its not spewing tons of oil.
No SC system including this is maintenance free, if doing any FI be willing to do the required routine maintenance and extra frequent checks.

[jflogerzi]

These units are known to have small amounts seep out if the seals on the unit are going bad.. my unit I added the Jon bond breather system. It helps with pressure in the unit during high load/boost. I am still having a problem with my breather setup where I get a tiny bit of leakage where the brass elbow goes into the thread which goes into supercharger snout. I check my oil levels every 30 days. Remember you need to jack up the rear end to get a level reading on the oil level in the SC

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[tzbang]

Well I really wanted the Harrop but it's twice the price of this kit. So I'm swaying back towards the Sprintex. I have a couple of questions if someone could help me out:

1. What size pulley can I get away with running 98RON (US 93 I think) on an inter-cooled version?

2. What sort of hp figure could I expect? I'll be coming from a Phantom full throttle ESC, UEL headers and decatted 2.5" exhaust. Never had it on a dyno but according to others it should be around 200rwhp.

3. My car's going in for the dreaded valve spring recall. 50,000kms on the clock, hadn't been thrashed. Do I need to upgrade my clutch or the OEM Exedy one ok?

4. Would anyone have an OFT tune that I could flash on? ...Even if it was just so I could drive to the tuner shop to get a proper tune?

5. Having to jack the rear of the car up every month sounds annoying. Not a question just an observation. :-)

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by tzbang

Well I really wanted the Harrop but it's twice the price of this kit. So I'm swaying back towards the Sprintex. I have a couple of questions if someone could help me out:

1. What size pulley can I get away with running 98RON (US 93 I think) on an inter-cooled version?

2. What sort of hp figure could I expect? I'll be coming from a Phantom full throttle ESC, UEL headers and decatted 2.5" exhaust. Never had it on a dyno but according to others it should be around 200rwhp.

3. My car's going in for the dreaded valve spring recall. 50,000kms on the clock, hadn't been thrashed. Do I need to upgrade my clutch or the OEM Exedy one ok?

4. Would anyone have an OFT tune that I could flash on? ...Even if it was just so I could drive to the tuner shop to get a proper tune?

5. Having to jack the rear of the car up every month sounds annoying. Not a question just an observation. :-)

1. Any, the smallest is 69mm. As long as you have timing that can be pulled out and enough fuel to support it you can pretty much always add more boost. On 93octane and 69mm you'll be at about 13-14degrees peak timing at WOT so still plenty. And stock injectors and pump can support 69mm on pump gas, with E85+69mm its recommended to upgrade but not 100% necessary.

2. 69mm pulley on 93octane with I/H/E should be about 260whp on a friendly dyno. E85 with that setup/dyno would be about 300whp.

3. You'll be right on the border of the stock clutches capabilities, could get away with it but it may slip a little and will definitely have a shorter life.

4. No, get custom ecutek tune. Either e-tune, or If getting dyno tune see if he can provide you a base map you can flash on to drive to him or just tow it to dyno. Steve or wayno might be able to help but idk.

5. I filled oil to appropriate level then made note of the level the oil showed when not jacked up. And make sure its at that level when i check.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

1. Any, the smallest is 69mm. As long as you have timing that can be pulled out and enough fuel to support it you can pretty much always add more boost. On 93octane and 69mm you'll be at about 13-14degrees peak timing at WOT so still plenty. And stock injectors and pump can support 69mm on pump gas, with E85+69mm its recommended to upgrade but not 100% necessary.

2. 69mm pulley on 93octane with I/H/E should be about 260whp on a friendly dyno. E85 with that setup/dyno would be about 300whp.

3. You'll be right on the border of the stock clutches capabilities, could get away with it but it may slip a little and will definitely have a shorter life.

4. No, get custom ecutek tune. Either e-tune, or If getting dyno tune see if he can provide you a base map you can flash on to drive to him or just tow it to dyno. Steve or wayno might be able to help but idk.

5. I filled oil to appropriate level then made note of the level the oil showed when not jacked up. And make sure its at that level when i check.

On the oil level. The oil I use makes the sight level impossible to use. I rather check oil levels every so often than have the blower run with low oil levels and cause issue. On 93 intercooled I think the 72mm is what I would stick with. At 10 to 10.5 psi is the max I would run on pump. Ride the stock clutch till it gives way. One thing to keep in mind is the TOB. My car was bought used as 13 model. These are know to fail. Was fine till I add the SC. Took it to the track with about 750 miles boosted. Got through 1 low speed session(new to this track) and on the second session I lost the TOB. As far as tuning OFT will work as long as the tuner is willing to use it. Most won't due to the open nature. I would recommend ecutek and an etune by Mike at Zero limit, Zach at CSG or delicious tuning. These shops know our cars and better yet know this kit very well. Nothing against your purposed tuner but these guys know the kit and there base tunes are well devolped. Plus you can sell your OFT to cover most of your ecutek costs.

Take what I say with a grain of salt but I have done my research on this kit pretty extensively. The other key is proper install. Also get an oil cooler or even better get the JR dual radiator and call it a day. Even in 100f I don't overheat in traffic or pushing the car hard in a cayon or street setting. Tracking I avoid the summer months due to the stress the car faces.

Bottom line this kit might not make the most whp but it's still is fun as can be on the street.

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

On the oil level. The oil I use makes the sight level impossible to use. I rather check oil levels every so often than have the blower run with low oil levels and cause issue. On 93 intercooled I think the 72mm is what I would stick with. At 10 to 10.5 psi is the max I would run on pump. Ride the stock clutch till it gives way. One thing to keep in mind is the TOB. My car was bought used as 13 model. These are know to fail. Was fine till I add the SC. Took it to the track with about 750 miles boosted. Got through 1 low speed session(new to this track) and on the second session I lost the TOB. As far as tuning OFT will work as long as the tuner is willing to use it. Most won't due to the open nature. I would recommend ecutek and an etune by Mike at Zero limit, Zach at CSG or delicious tuning. These shops know our cars and better yet know this kit very well. Nothing against your purposed tuner but these guys know the kit and there base tunes are well devolped. Plus you can sell your OFT to cover most of your ecutek costs.

Take what I say with a grain of salt but I have done my research on this kit pretty extensively. The other key is proper install. Also get an oil cooler or even better get the JR dual radiator and call it a day. Even in 100f I don't overheat in traffic or pushing the car hard in a cayon or street setting. Tracking I avoid the summer months due to the stress the car faces.

Bottom line this kit might not make the most whp but it's still is fun as can be on the street.

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That isn't really how octane and boost work necessarily.
Like i said as long as you have timing that can be pulled you can safely run any amount of boost without octane being the limiting factor. Obviously structural integrity, lifting heads, and valves etc.. would limit boost as well as injector and fuel pump being able to pump enough fuel as more boost = more fuel. And obviously how much power the engine can handle bending rods etc..

But purely speaking on octane. On 92 octane and 69mm pulley i am at 14 degrees of timing, with WMI I'm at 18 degrees. E85 lets you run about 20-22 degrees with 69mm. Now add more boost and pull more timing. Take away boost you can add more timing. More boost = more power, more timing also = more power but generally you can gain overall more power from the added boost even with the less timing you need to run for a total net positive. E85 has the knock rating of 108 octane because it is so knock resistant it can run more timing without knocking which is why it adds so much more power.

Lets say on pump 93, 75mm makes 9psi and can run 19degrees, 72.5mm makes 10.5psi and can run 17degrees, 70mm makes 12psi and can run 15degrees, you can theoretically go down to like 8degrees at say 16psi, but as boost goes up heat and IATs go up exponentially and so at a certain point you will have to pull so much timing per PSI increment that adding more boost wont make up for the loss of power from pulling so much timing. At which point it wouldn't make sense to run more boost. At exactly what PSI / timing combo that results in i am not 100% sure and you would really need a dyno to be able to know for sure. But i know people have run the sprintex 335 on the bigger pulling making 14psi on pump and made more power then the 69mm pulley (12.5psi) with the 210 on pump, meaning the 210 doesn't make enough boost to be octane limited on pump only power limited compared to E85 if that makes sense. So in fact E85 would stress the engine more and be more risky because of the extra power and risk of bending a rod compared to pump gas assuming it was tuned appropriately.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

That isn't really how octane and boost work necessarily.

Like i said as long as you have timing that can be pulled you can safely run any amount of boost without octane being the limiting factor. Obviously structural integrity, lifting heads, and valves etc.. would limit boost as well as injector and fuel pump being able to pump enough fuel as more boost = more fuel. And obviously how much power the engine can handle bending rods etc..



But purely speaking on octane. On 92 octane and 69mm pulley i am at 14 degrees of timing, with WMI I'm at 18 degrees. E85 lets you run about 20-22 degrees with 69mm. Now add more boost and pull more timing. Take away boost you can add more timing. More boost = more power, more timing also = more power but generally you can gain overall more power from the added boost even with the less timing you need to run for a total net positive. E85 has the knock rating of 108 octane because it is so knock resistant it can run more timing without knocking which is why it adds so much more power.



Lets say on pump 93, 75mm makes 9psi and can run 19degrees, 72.5mm makes 10.5psi and can run 17degrees, 70mm makes 12psi and can run 15degrees, you can theoretically go down to like 8degrees at say 16psi, but as boost goes up heat and IATs go up exponentially and so at a certain point you will have to pull so much timing per PSI increment that adding more boost wont make up for the loss of power from pulling so much timing. At which point it wouldn't make sense to run more boost. At exactly what PSI / timing combo that results in i am not 100% sure and you would really need a dyno to be able to know for sure. But i know people have run the sprintex 335 on the bigger pulling making 14psi on pump and made more power then the 69mm pulley (12.5psi) with the 210 on pump, meaning the 210 doesn't make enough boost to be octane limited on pump only power limited compared to E85 if that makes sense. So in fact E85 would stress the engine more and be more risky because of the extra power and risk of bending a rod compared to pump gas assuming it was tuned appropriately.

But I thought the whole reason for e85 was the high octane plus allowing the engine run cooler this putting less stress on the engine?

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

But I thought the whole reason for e85 was the high octane plus allowing the engine run cooler this putting less stress on the engine?

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The main benefit to E85 is the effective high octane allowing timing to be advanced to create much more power.

the secondary benefit is E85 burns at a lower temperature so intake temps/heat soak are minimized, the main concern with heat soak is that higher IATs = hotter air = less dense air = less power, as well as sometimes if IATs are hot enough timing needs to be retarded to not knock resulting in less power as well.

Heat is always a concerning factor for component longevity, but more so with oil and coolant temps, IATs will have more of an effect on power over anything.

With that being said, because E85 can generally gain about 10-15% more power over 93 on a boosted engine, you are stressing the engine that much more, so any slight benefit to engine longevity from lower IATs will be entirely lost and then some by the added stress of the engine from making 10-15% more power. Most failures are from the rods bending/snapping from too much torque or a fast sudden hit of torque, or bearing failure from too much torque and/or oil starvation. Rarely anything specifically related to high IATs the tune should be able to compensate for that, unless high IATs contributed to high OIL temps but a proper oil cooler should negate that.

E85 is safer from a knock/tuning aspect, but a good tune is a good tune, a bad tune is a bad tune regardless, you could say it has more room for error. But a good tuner it shouldn’t really matter. But More power will always inherently stress the engine more.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

....

With that being said, because E85 can generally gain about 10-15% more power over 93 on a boosted engine, you are stressing the engine that much more, so any slight benefit to engine longevity from lower IATs will be entirely lost and then some by the added stress of the engine from making 10-15% more power. Most failures are from the rods bending/snapping from too much torque or a fast sudden hit of torque, or bearing failure from too much torque and/or oil starvation.

Mostly accurate but this part I wouldn't put so much weight on. A single instance of detonation can increase combustion pressures 200% or more, this is what tends to break rods. Increasing power 10% (more typical e85 gain on these setups) while decreasing the frequency/likelihood of detonation should increase reliability of the engine overall.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Xero-Limit

Mostly accurate but this part I wouldn't put so much weight on. A single instance of detonation can increase combustion pressures 200% or more, this is what tends to break rods. Increasing power 10% (more typical e85 gain on these setups) while decreasing the frequency/likelihood of detonation should increase reliability of the engine overall.

Would you say that pump gas like 93 octane, can be run at relatively the same "safety" level from a tune/knock/detonation standpoint on say 10 psi vs 12 psi (not factoring in extra stress from power increase), as long as the tune and timing is adjusted accordingly? like is 10psi at say 16degrees timing vs 12psi at say 13 degrees of timing going to be similar in safety? or even with adding the necessary fuel and pulling the appropriate amount of timing, more boost will always be less safe?

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Would you say that pump gas like 93 octane, can be run at relatively the same "safety" level from a tune/knock/detonation standpoint on say 10 psi vs 12 psi (not factoring in extra stress from power increase), as long as the tune and timing is adjusted accordingly? like is 10psi at say 16degrees timing vs 12psi at say 13 degrees of timing going to be similar in safety? or even with adding the necessary fuel and pulling the appropriate amount of timing, more boost will always be less safe?

You can go up a pound or two and pull a bit of timing to try and increase the buffer. What I prefer to do on a car that must be reliable (OEM style tune) is to tune at the higher boost level, then drop down a psi or two. Similar thing more or less but then you can crank it up on occasion (via map switching) when you want full power, but for general daily use you can run more conservative when you won't miss the 10 hp or so.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Xero-Limit

You can go up a pound or two and pull a bit of timing to try and increase the buffer. What I prefer to do on a car that must be reliable (OEM style tune) is to tune at the higher boost level, then drop down a psi or two. Similar thing more or less but then you can crank it up on occasion (via map switching) when you want full power, but for general daily use you can run more conservative when you won't miss the 10 hp or so.

Interesting, always appreciate information from an experienced source such as yourself.
For our cars at what PSI would you recommend lowering compression to have maximum power at a pretty reliable level? And if lowering by how much would be necessary? Someday i want to build a long block and max out the 335 see how much i can reliably push it.

[tzbang]

If I go straight to the 72mm pulley do I need a different belt or is the standard belt that comes in the kit ok?