ID injectors are amazing

[Those Meddling Kids]

I only sell ID injectors now. I quit selling the others about a year or so back. The biggest thing that sets ID apart is that they provide proper injectors data for a variety of applications. In order to properly tune you need all the data. Without it you are guessing.

[PrimeMotoring]

Originally Posted by jamesm

PSA: everyone buying a turbo kit should get some ID injectors to go with. i tuned @Ironsquid's car on them, and they're a dream. i want to throw my DW's in the trash now. we were able to get everything dialed in perfectly in very little time with no fuss at all. by far the best i've tuned with, in a class of their own actually.

the full blown kits come with them. all of the kits should. if yours doesn't and you plan on tuning it yourself (or want really, really good drivability), you should sell whatever yours came with and get some IDs. just my .02

ID's is all we use on all our builds.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by arghx7

Here's something to keep in mind. Some would probably object to what I'm ......

This guy has one hell of a degree thats for sure

shit aside, you always post well detailed information

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Those Meddling Kids

I only sell ID injectors now. I quit selling the others about a year or so back. The biggest thing that sets ID apart is that they provide proper injectors data for a variety of applications. In order to properly tune you need all the data. Without it you are guessing.

I'd argue that the data is just the first step to getting it right and all injectors need further fine tuning but yeah, the data is nice to have, and IDs was pretty close.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

This guy has one hell of a degree thats for sure

shit aside, you always post well detailed information

Thank you for the kind words and I hope my posts are helpful. Sometimes I think I'm too detailed.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by arghx7

Thank you for the kind words and I hope my posts are helpful. Sometimes I think I'm too detailed.

there is no such thing.

[King Tut]

Noted for the future.

[Fast_Freddy]

My DW injectors were made by Denso. I didn't know that DW sold any Bosch injectors.

[coyote]

Originally Posted by arghx7

Here's something to keep in mind. Some would probably object to what I'm saying, but neither Injector Dynamics nor DeatschWerks "invent" or "design" injectors. They resell parts from Bosch, they pick stuff out of a catalog based on price, availability, and what they believe customer demands will be. Bosch is notorious as a fuel system supplier for poor service; I doubt they give these vendors the time of day to make custom spray patterns, not with such low volumes.

Dunno, I've seen a few sets of IDs that appeared to have different nozzles to the standard Bosch stuff.

I don't like how they test them with the wrong fluid and inflate the flow capacity, otherwise I'll agree that they are very consistent and the flow is linear.

As James said, take the lovely data as a starting point ... not a bunch of numbers you can simply plug and play.

[Xero-Limit]

ID vs DW vs XX is not so clear cut IMO. Basically most injector resellers/distributors take off the shelf bosch/denso/whichever injectors, find the right p/n and attach it to the application. Some end up using spacers, pigtails, etc...but the goal is to always be able to use the OEM body without having to re-drill the nozzle--that's economics. Then you just best match the flows from the ones you have and bundle them. This is what most injector companies do for you. We started using DW after getting mismatched sets with BS flow numbers from other vendors. (not DW nor ID). The DW stuff we have sold and tuned have been 100% and without issues on the BRZ and MX5 over the years. DW does their own flow testing so we have had no issues. However, in applications where flow has to be tweaked by boring out the injector nozzle, that flow testing is even more critical.

I don't understand why people are using 1000cc injectors on this car and running <500whp. We sell the 450 and 700cc DW versions, and I don't see over 25% capacity on the 700's at <350whp on pump. Using 1000s is just asking for driveability issues and roughness. You can do it easier on this since the DI is the primary fueling in the low range, but using the right injector for the application is much more cost effective from both the hardware perspective, and tuning time as well. With DI being able to support >250 hp without a serious overdrive, you should not need more than 550's to break the motor and trans in this car and have duty cycle to spare.

[jamesm]

If I had it to do over I'd go with smaller injectors, but only to save money. As you alluded to, the drawbacks to large injectors are pretty much a non-issue on this platform. I've never had much trouble achieving better-than-stock drivability on the turbo cars with injectors of any size, given a decent maf. It took about 3 months to figure out a solid process to do it, but it's repeatable and works on any setup I've come across so far. These IDs just make it a lot faster and easier to accomplish, and the end result in terms of cumulative fueling error is noticeably better.

[SkullWorks]

Arghx7 is ofcourse correct but possibly a bit too PC

DW injectors started as an injector re-drill shop will horrible quality and consistency, they may be doing less shady work nowadays but that bridge is burned for my business.

In reality what Jamesm would have said if he knew was "EV12/14 injectors are amazing" and they are, Bosch went through alot of trouble to make an injector that responds very quickly and has very linear flow rates even during it's opening period, and it has a very minimal opening time.

They are indeed a superior injector but they can be sourced alot of places for very decent prices because Bosch has flooded the market with them. The response of the injector is what lets a 1000cc injector work so well even on a small engine such as ours.

there was a video floating around a couple years ago of a shop idling a B16 on 1000-1200cc injectors at like 650 RPM and they could command very low AFR consistently, anyone that has ever tried to tune a standard injector in that situation knows what a feat it is to get low pulse width consistency from cylinder to cylinder and still have decent atomization.

EV14 FTMFW...

If you need to go HUGE loop for their cng or propane injectors which are the same internals with stupid hi flow rates (up to 2300cc IIRC)

[mrk1]

I had DW's in my STi and I was not impressed with there physical quality, looked like used crayons. I switched to ID's and was very impressed.

If my BRZ gets to that point ID will be my first stop.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by jamesm

PSA: everyone buying a turbo kit should get some ID injectors to go with. i tuned @Ironsquid's car on them, and they're a dream. i want to throw my DW's in the trash now. we were able to get everything dialed in perfectly in very little time with no fuss at all. by far the best i've tuned with, in a class of their own actually.

the full blown kits come with them. all of the kits should. if yours doesn't and you plan on tuning it yourself (or want really, really good drivability), you should sell whatever yours came with and get some IDs. just my .02

I have ID 1k's on the way for my build.

Originally Posted by arghx7

Here's something to keep in mind. Some would probably object to what I'm saying, but neither Injector Dynamics nor DeatschWerks "invent" or "design" injectors. They resell parts from Bosch, they pick stuff out of a catalog based on price, availability, and what they believe customer demands will be. Bosch is notorious as a fuel system supplier for poor service; I doubt they give these vendors the time of day to make custom spray patterns, not with such low volumes.


If you have two injectors of similar flow rates with a modern coil and valve design, the difference is probably the orifice plate. There are a huge number of factors in injector design, especially regarding the number and positioning of the holes in the orifice plate.


Translation: the vendor might have picked a spray pattern out of a catalog that happens to work better for the application. It could be pure coincidence. Flow matching is a marketing tool. It's not ONLY a marketing tool (I'm not saying it's pointless), but remember that Bosch, the ones who actually made the injectors, have their own quality control and production tolerances.

Arghx7 always with the knowledge. I'm glad you're back around and posting more. You were quiet for quite some time.