Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Actually I'm not so sure about that, when NA tends to get either watered down variants or missing trims and components to cut cost as we're supposedly a continent of poor cheap arses.

At least we get cheap gas.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by rvoll

4. Tada stated that you need a different chassis on the current 86 to handle more power properly.

What a crock of… I know, I know, it’s sacrilegious to disagree with Tada-son but…


Back in 2004 Mazda built the Mazdaspeed Turbo MX-5. They didn’t need to completely redesign the chassis. They just added things like Bilstien shocks, stiffer springs, wider tires, thicker anti-roll bars and a strut tower brace. Voila! Another perfectly balanced Miata with what??? MORE horse power!


The twins have done all the ground work with the BRZ tS and the soon to be released Toyota 86 TRD Edition. They come with flexible V braces and draw stiffeners. They have Sachs dampers and coil springs, (lightweight) 18-inch alloy wheels mounted with Michelin Pilot Sport 4 high performance tires. They even went one step better than the Mazdaspeed by adding bigger discs with Brembo calipers.


All that is needed now is the Forced Induction.


What Tada-son is really saying is that, Toyota/Subaru can’t meet the emission numbers if they up the twin’s h.p. Not to mention crash zone/impact protection and other standards that would be affected by adding a turbo, intercooler and all that that entails.

Originally Posted by rvoll

...this is pure deductive logic.

Oh pahleeeesse… Don’t get me started on deductive/inductive reasoning.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Actually I'm not so sure about that, when NA tends to get either watered down variants or missing trims and components to cut cost as we're supposedly a continent of poor cheap arses.

no market/region is perfect when it comes to cars but considering all things, think NA has the best variety & most accessible pricing.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Back in 2004 Mazda built the Mazdaspeed Turbo MX-5

Wasn't this also the porkiest Miata ever made?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Wasn't this also the porkiest Miata ever made?

And also the most hackjob engine in any Miata. It has power, but its powerband is choppy and it falls on its face.

Adding power within the limitations an OEM finds itself is VERY difficult, especially when it's already this high-strung. It usually requires a new engine all together. Note that the 180hp Miata motor is STILL not as high strung as the FA20.

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

And also the most hackjob engine in any Miata. It has power, but its powerband is choppy and it falls on its face.

Adding power within the limitations an OEM finds itself is VERY difficult, especially when it's already this high-strung. It usually requires a new engine all together. Note that the 180hp Miata motor is STILL not as high strung as the FA20.

How so?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

How so?

FA20: 102.5 HP/liter
MX-5: 90 HP/liter

The higher this number, the more NOx gasses the engine will produce, making it tougher to pass emissions.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

FA20: 102.5 HP/liter
MX-5: 90 HP/liter

The higher this number, the more NOx gasses the engine will produce, making it tougher to pass emissions.

Oh get outta here with your rational and realistic facts. Nobody wants to hear that. They want a turbo slapped on there that magically passes all the requirements. Must be possible since other cars have them.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh get outta here with your rational and realistic facts. Nobody wants to hear that. They want a turbo slapped on there that magically passes all the requirements. Must be possible since other cars have them.

I know right!

Let's seeeee. How many CARB approved turbo kits are there? Oh right. One. And it struggles to put more than 210 HP to the wheels: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102598

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I know right!

Let's seeeee. How many CARB approved turbo kits are there? Oh right. One. And it struggles to put more than 210 HP to the wheels: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102598

And even then it is only CARB approved for emissions. God only knows what impact it has on the crash and pedestrian safety ratings.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh get outta here with your rational and realistic facts. Nobody wants to hear that. They want a turbo slapped on there that magically passes all the requirements. Must be possible since other cars have them.

Safety and emissions requirements aside, I do think designers like Tada think about the car holistically -- and that is traditionally Japanese as well. They look for "perfect balance" which includes handling, style, performance, etc. Once you add significant hp, you have to change the handling characteristics. When I stroked the motor on one of my Porsches, the car was no longer balanced and as forgiving. It took me a year to bring it back with suspension changes, bigger wheels and tires and specially constructed transaxle mounts. I could out drag people better, but it was not as much fun at the track.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Safety and emissions requirements aside, I do think designers like Tada think about the car holistically -- and that is traditionally Japanese as well. They look for "perfect balance" which includes handling, style, performance, etc. Once you add significant hp, you have to change the handling characteristics. When I stroked the motor on one of my Porsches, the car was no longer balanced and as forgiving. It took me a year to bring it back with suspension changes, bigger wheels and tires and specially constructed transaxle mounts. I could out drag people better, but it was not as much fun at the track.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

And also the most hackjob engine in any Miata. It has power, but its powerband is choppy and it falls on its face.

Adding power within the limitations an OEM finds itself is VERY difficult, especially when it's already this high-strung. It usually requires a new engine all together. Note that the 180hp Miata motor is STILL not as high strung as the FA20.

What? Adding power and keeping it with the MSM is pretty easy. Flying miata makes multiple kits. I thought the couple msm I drove were really decent.

2500 lbs for a turbo convertible..... super porky. Lol

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I just read somewhere in the last week that only 2% of cars sold in NA have manual transmissions. Most people do not want them. You get better gas mileage and performance from the new automatics and dual clutch cars. It just does not make sense for the auto makers to continue to manufacture cars with manual from an economic stand point.



Even most modern race cars no longer have a third pedal. I was a diehard manual driver for 50 years and taught all 4 of my kids to drive a standard shift but even I have to accept that the manual is a dinosaur and will soon become extinct.



2010 - 6.7% of cars sold in US with manual

2017 - 3% of cars sold in US with manual

2018 - first half of model year only 2% of cars sold in US with manual.



Soon, in order to get manual shift you will have to buy used.

Cool story bro.