2017 M/T, 29k miles, requiring valve adjustment

[Mr. Kurtz]

I've had a sporadic check engine light since about 6500 miles. When it first came on, I brought it to the dealer I purchased it from for them to have a look. It had codes P118F and P219A, and I noticed a very slight rough idle. When I spoke to the service manager, he claimed the check engine light was on because of my remote starter. I pressed him on whether the tech had done any testing related to these two DTC's, and he said no, they didn't need to, because of the remote starter. This same dealer also billed Toyota for my 7500 Toyota Care service at 5000 miles, while doing none of the associated work, but I digress...

Anyway, fast forward to now, 29,000 miles on the clock, and the light has come on(and gone off on its own) six more times; the first three with P219A and P118F, the second three with P219A and P119F. I brought it to a different local Toyota dealer, who actually spent some time looking at the car, and they determined the valves needed to be adjusted.

They claim the motor needs to come out to adjust the valves. Can anyone confirm this? It seems reasonable, as the motor is wide and the car is narrow. Obviously it's all under warranty, and they are providing a loaner, so I'm not overly concerned how they get it done.

What is everyone's experience with the FA20/4U-GSE motor and valve adjustment intervals? I couldn't find anything from Toyota or Subaru giving a spec for the mileage at which they should be checked.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz

I've had a sporadic check engine light since about 6500 miles. When it first came on, I brought it to the dealer I purchased it from for them to have a look. It had codes P118F and P219A, and I noticed a very slight rough idle. When I spoke to the service manager, he claimed the check engine light was on because of my remote starter. I pressed him on whether the tech had done any testing related to these two DTC's, and he said no, they didn't need to, because of the remote starter. This same dealer also billed Toyota for my 7500 Toyota Care service at 5000 miles, while doing none of the associated work, but I digress...

Anyway, fast forward to now, 29,000 miles on the clock, and the light has come on(and gone off on its own) six more times; the first three with P219A and P118F, the second three with P219A and P119F. I brought it to a different local Toyota dealer, who actually spent some time looking at the car, and they determined the valves needed to be adjusted.

They claim the motor needs to come out to adjust the valves. Can anyone confirm this? It seems reasonable, as the motor is wide and the car is narrow. Obviously it's all under warranty, and they are providing a loaner, so I'm not overly concerned how they get it done.

What is everyone's experience with the FA20/4U-GSE motor and valve adjustment intervals? I couldn't find anything from Toyota or Subaru giving a spec for the mileage at which they should be checked.

Well, now that's a bummer ......

Yes, to "adjust" the valves, I reckon the engine would have to come out of the car. I understand that they are "adjusted" by replacing shims.

I haven't heard too much on this forum about having to replace valve shims, especially at that relatively low mileage.

But, I reckon if they are willing to do the work at their expense ...... they must be pretty sure that is the problem.




humfrz

FLASHBACK: Adjust valves ..... a one beer job. Warm up car, while drinking 1/2 of a beer, take off the valve cover (two acorn nuts); loosen each adjuster nut, insert feeler gauge, turn adjuster screw with a short screwdriver, tighten nut. Repeat 11 more times, replace valve cover ...... finish the beer ....done......

[Oxyg3n]

Honestly I don't know much about the internals of car engines..but @ 5000 miles my engine was also taken out to perform valve adjustment with the P119F and P219A codes. My CEL has not come back on ever since so I would assume that is the correct fix.

Although I always felt that my car made weird mechanical noises after, but that could be just a placebo effect since I was not happy they had to take apart my new car.

P.s. I was lucky to get a free 100k/7yr gold warranty because I expressed how I was unhappy I had to face this with a new car and they would not provide lemon law.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Yes, to "adjust" the valves, I reckon the engine would have to come out of the car. I understand that they are "adjusted" by replacing shims.

humfrz

Yeah, these are the same design as my race bike I believe, shim under bucket, with the only way to adjust clearance being to change the shims. I'm going to ask them to record the valve clearances and shim before/after sizing for any they adjust.

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

Honestly I don't know much about the internals of car engines..but @ 5000 miles my engine was also taken out to perform valve adjustment with the P119F and P219A codes. My CEL has not come back on ever since so I would assume that is the correct fix.

Well, I guess I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm really annoyed that way back at 6400 miles, when I first had the CEL on, I didn't bring it to a different dealer.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Alright...

Dropped the car off on March 15 for the valve adjustment, picked it up today. I had a loaner car, so I made it clear to them that I was not going to rush them, and they assured me the shop foreman was the one actually doing the work, with guidance from 'TAS,' which I assume to be some sort of information help desk for Toyota dealer service departments.

Get the call this morning that the car is done, and they are short on loaners, so the service advisor asks how soon I could come get it. I tell him I'll head down on lunch, shortly after 12, which I do, but he's gone already for the day, so I just get the keys and receipt from the cashier.

Get in the car, adjust the seat, plug my phone charger back in, etc, and notice the car has 66 miles on it since I dropped it off. I'm not worried, because I have a friend who works at this dealer(in another department) and they know that, so I imagine they haven't been needlessly joy riding or anything. Turns out the shop foreman drove it home to make sure the MIL didn't come back on, which is fine by me.

I pull out and drive down the road, and immediately upon giving it some gas in a straight line it now makes so much power it lights up both rear tires at 30mph! Wait...that doesn't seem right. Shift up into a too-high gear, floor it...and the revs shoot up...but the car doesn't accelerate. Great...now the clutch is slipping. Go around the block, pull back into the shop, hand the keys to the check in person and explain I need to drop this back off. He wanders off, the shop foreman comes out and introduces himself. I explain what's going on, he says "yeah, I noticed it was slipping, (my friend) was gonna ask if you wanted to put a new clutch in." I tell him that (friend) said the shop wanted to know if I wanted to upgrade the clutch, but since it's a stock car with 30k on it, I saw no reason to. Foreman says "well, it's all under warranty, we'll just put a new clutch in it," then says his goodbye and leaves back into the shop.

Check-in person comes back, hands me back my keys, takes the new window tag out of the car, and says I need to wait and talk to the service advisor on Monday, and tells me the clutch isn't under warranty anyway. They've got no loaners(the one I just drove in is gone...), so I ask him to document that I came right back, and that he's advising me to drive the car home with the clutch slipping. He does so, and tells me I'll hear from the service advisor Monday. As I'm backing out, the other check-in person tells me the service advisor will actually be in tomorrow at 7am, and that I can call him then.

So...now after 15 days, I have my car back, with a pretty badly slipping clutch. This absolutely WAS NOT slipping when I dropped it off. I drive the car every day, I'm pretty gentle(the car isn't' a straight line fast car, all the fun is in the handing), and there is no way I could have been oblivious; the car jumps 1000 rpm at the slightest application of throttle anywhere below 4000rpm, with no acceleration. Also, it stinks like burnt clutch.

I'm hoping they do the right thing and take care of this. If they don't, and since it seems to be my word against theirs, how much hope do I have that Toyota will intervene and make this right? Anyone have any experience with this type of scenario?

Also...there was another 2017, this one with 500 miles, in the shop for a valve adjustment when I picked mine up.

Also also...what factory clutch on a 205HP car starts slipping at 30,000 miles?!

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz

Yeah, these are the same design as my race bike I believe, shim under bucket, with the only way to adjust clearance being to change the shims. I'm going to ask them to record the valve clearances and shim before/after sizing for any they adjust.

Not shim & bucket though. Hydraulic lifters and a short rocker/roller between the camshaft and valve.
Maybe a problem with the lifter pressure and too much goo in an oil gallery.
There have been reports of some early trouble with rocker arms and poor manufacturing.
More likely would be something happening at the cam timing gubbins on the camshaft.

Hope the clutch problems are sorted soon.

[sfdai0]

I dont know if its just the small sample size, but a couple of threads of new 2017/2018 with codes popping up so early worries me.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by bcj

Not shim & bucket though. Hydraulic lifters and a short rocker/roller between the camshaft and valve.

Are you sure about that ........??




humfrz

PS

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114499

[bcj]

Well. That's a revelation. Shim under rocker.
Part #1 in the picture looked like the perfect place to put hydraulics.
My Honda 650 motor had almost exactly the same configuration, though without the roller.
Those were hydraulic lifters in that case.

If #1 was threaded, with a lock nut, you wouldn't need the shim either.
What *were* they thinking? "Hey! let's make this even sillier!"

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz

I've had a sporadic check engine light since about 6500 miles. When it first came on, I brought it to the dealer I purchased it from for them to have a look. It had codes P118F and P219A, and I noticed a very slight rough idle. When I spoke to the service manager, he claimed the check engine light was on because of my remote starter. I pressed him on whether the tech had done any testing related to these two DTC's, and he said no, they didn't need to, because of the remote starter. This same dealer also billed Toyota for my 7500 Toyota Care service at 5000 miles, while doing none of the associated work, but I digress...

Anyway, fast forward to now, 29,000 miles on the clock, and the light has come on(and gone off on its own) six more times; the first three with P219A and P118F, the second three with P219A and P119F. I brought it to a different local Toyota dealer, who actually spent some time looking at the car, and they determined the valves needed to be adjusted.

They claim the motor needs to come out to adjust the valves. Can anyone confirm this? It seems reasonable, as the motor is wide and the car is narrow. Obviously it's all under warranty, and they are providing a loaner, so I'm not overly concerned how they get it done.

What is everyone's experience with the FA20/4U-GSE motor and valve adjustment intervals? I couldn't find anything from Toyota or Subaru giving a spec for the mileage at which they should be checked.

Seems kind of weird that they reckon valves need adjustment when those CEL codes relate to air fuel ratio imbalance. Would have though they would be looking at fuel pressure, ecu fuel trims, maf sensors 02 sensors or intake/exhaust leaks

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by bcj

..............If #1 was threaded, with a lock nut, you wouldn't need the shim either.
What *were* they thinking? "Hey! let's make this even sillier!"

I reckon "they" were thinking that the LAST thing we need, is a bunch of half assed trained mechanics with a half inch wrench and a feeler gauge, adjusting the valves on these engines .......





humfrz

[bcj]

That's what they're doing now.
Only they have to pull the cams to do it and muck around with precision micrometers along with the wrenches and feelers.

What a whorl... what a whorl.

[Capt Spaulding]

These things requiring valve adjustments is really strange. Given the design of the valve train the only real chance for the clearances to change should be valve recession due to valve seat/valve face wear, That'll tighten them up, eventually causing driveability problems, but it should happen VERY slowly. There must be screwups happening during engine assembly, or something seriously wrong in the metallurgy of the valve seats/faces. I would ask for an explanation.

[Mr. Kurtz]

The one they were doing after mine only had 500 miles, and my symptoms initially appeared at only 6000. I’m gonna guess these are assembly errors.


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