Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[nonicname]

Originally Posted by fenton

Im a FRS owner in the area were these systems are being tested. I have always been interested in systems such as these and know that i want something cost effective and easy to install. This seems to hit on all those points nicely.

I will be testing the companies product and letting you all know how it works. If it works well I believe they will be interested in selling them however this is simply an engineering trial now.

when will you be running some dynos?
so is this kit, nothing but the fan unit with the motor and the batteries?
Is there a new alternator required?

[Gixxersixxerman]

I'm subbing just to see how this turns out

[fenton]

Originally Posted by nonicname

when will you be running some dynos?
so is this kit, nothing but the fan unit with the motor and the batteries?
Is there a new alternator required?

Should be later this week.

The system consists of cold side of the turbo with dc motor connected(50,000 rpm) , 3 batteries, high power speed controller and charger, activation switch, in cabin power readout with arming function.

There is no loss from the alternator more than running your rear defroster. The 2 high discharge batteries dump power to the turbo and the other battery recharges the 2 batteries in series at a max of 20a.

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[ft_sjo]

Ye cannae defy the laws of physics, cap'n!

[uspspro]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Ye cannae defy the laws of physics, cap'n!

No... but you can change the load characteristics of the system. Similar to utility scale energy storage systems (battery, compressed air, stored hydro, etc). Store up the energy when it's not needed, and release it from storage when it's in demand. For utilities, that would typically be hot days in the late afternoon. For cars, that would be when you go WOT.

[Craig]

I'd love to see a nice bump in low end torque with an extra ~20 hp gained throughout power band. Super interested to see where this goes!

[rusty959]

I'm excited to see where this goes. For those who think this is similar to the ones that have been tested from ebay, it should be pretty obvious that this is a lot higher power and actually has a compressor wheel and efficiency maps vs just being a fan.
Now, As others have stated, considering the high rpm's of the fa20 I'm not convinced it will do much good up top, but we shall see.

[Whitigir]

I dont know how weak the golf engine vacuum is. But i would think it was very weak.

1/ engine sucks air in by itself, the smaller and weaker the engine is = the less air inhaled.

2/ the forced induction air have to make it way on top of the engine vacuum to create more power. Say it inhales 110 psi per 2 cylinders over 4. You have to feed 120 to call the 10 extra Forced Induction. Let not count how rapidly the engine inhale (how fast the engine vacuum air in at 8000 rpm)

Now the principal of actual turbo which used the wasted exhaust gas to allow the engine to breathe better, because the inhale = exhale at the least, but due to the combustable nature, the heat created wasted exhaust gas out more than the engine can inhale. Turbo system utilized this to create more air to feed the engine. Simply put, turbo will always atleast minimally feed the engine the air it want, and then create boost under load, and rpm. Turbos are not limitless either. They have their own weakness. Some of them run out of steam at high RPM.

Conclusion, if an electric SC can not withstand the engine inhale, or barely feeding air, it will run out of steam on a long run due to the battery, and will become an obstacle. Because the engine inhale as you drive, but the battery will never get enough charge constanly to feed your Electric SC. So on a daily drive on the highway, after about 15 minutes (if the electric sc works) your engine will be submited for a struggle for air when the battery is running low. Try imagine you trying to breathe through your shirt when you run...



I can logically think of why that golf had it work.

1/ engine barely inhale air, the eSC could actually feed more air. It just wont last

2/ on the dyno, which only run 5 minutes a pull or less. They can lie and post that they run 100+ pull continuously!

3/ post that map on the perfect conditions where it worked, so they can rip you off ($100 per unit made, and sell you 350 each ?) they make plenty, and there are more naive people than you think.

4/ Manufacturers had been looking for alternative solutions beside actual Turbos, and SC systems. But why dont you see anything in racing, or produced by them ? It doesnt work. Technically it works for a short time, but do you drive for only 15 minutes every day at constant 2000 rpm ?

5/ when a manufacturers dont produce something = because of cost, if it cost too much and they r more likely to lose profit, they wont produce. But they will put it in Concept, or Race car to let the world knows of their capability. But when all Auto makers dont...that means it doesnt work! Show me one auto maker that have this similar electric system ?

Now, i know many of you guys love to argue, and even put in some very ridiculous arguments. Therefore, i am posting this in hope of helping some of you to not waste your time and trouble over these. Honestly guys, go get a real FI, and a tune. Otherwise, dont bother

*pardon* me that i didnt get enough indepth in things. I just wanted to use logical, and simple says.
*pardon* my english. It is not my native language, and i am not here to learn english, so i wont bother about it. Thanks

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

But when all Auto makers don't...that means it doesn't work! Show me one auto maker that have this similar electric system

Automakers are notoriously slow to adopt new technology to cars. Direct injection has been around for decades and is only now seeing widespread use on cars. Does it not work? Turbos were in use in aviation for many years before they were put on cars. Do they not work?
A wise man once said, "it is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Take his advice.

[chadstyle]

Electric FI is no joke!! There are 6 manufacturers working with the technology now and all site great gains and no parasitic drag that you would get from a centrifugal setup and no heat soak like a TC setup. My father in law is always asking me about electric super chargers as he's a total tech geek and follows popular mechanics religiously.

With today's brushless electric motors they are capable of spooling extremely fast and running for long periods of time reliably. I used to buy ONLY nitro RC cars as they were by far the fastest available. In the last 5 years, brushless motors and li-po batteries have killed nitro cars hands down. The torque they put out is incredible and now there are electric RC cars doing well over 100mph right out of the box. This leads me to believe the technology is there and it's only a matter of implementing and tuning to work with our cars.

To the OP, what controls the speed of the electric motor? I assume the small box pictured with the two heavy gauge wires is the control unit...how are they able to tie it into the factory ECU to monitor throttle position, rpm, etc?? Has this company (the one that you purchased the parts from) done many cars? How much boost is it capable of producing? Lastly, how much does the setup cost?

Some people may be skeptical but I think a quick ride in a new Tesla would change their minds...the torque that car produces at all speeds is amazing!! An electric FI setup doesn't seem far fetched at all after spending time behind the wheel of a Tesla.

Subbed and good luck!! Stoked for the results!!

[fenton]

The thing is all the manufacturers are starting to talk about this. Audi BMW and subaru have all acknowledged electric Fi HELPER systems. Not full electric Fi but helper.

Understand your point about the golf being weak but the compressor I am using is much much more powerful.

If you consider the flow rate it has More than enough airflow to create boost in our engine. It provides 400cfm in our spec and that is enough to feed 250hp in a normal engine.

I'm just as interested in this as you all... Trust me the dyno#s won't lie once installed and I will be sure to post it up.

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[fenton]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

To the OP, what controls the speed of the electric motor? I assume the small box pictured with the two heavy gauge wires is the control unit...how are they able to tie it into the factory ECU to monitor throttle position, rpm, etc?? Has this company (the one that you purchased the parts from) done many cars? How much boost is it capable of producing? Lastly, how much does the setup cost?



Subbed and good luck!! Stoked for the results!!

That control box is set to spin the motor at a static rpm. The system is activated a wot switch in the cabin. The system has no knowledge of the ecu. The ecu will see an increase it airflow and tables will be changed in order for it to be safe, that is if it isn't right out of the box.

The guys have done about 5 or 6 cars. All had about 40 percent more torque and 25 percent more power. All their previous cars were not tuned. The maf simply added full as necessary as airflow increased.

The system is technically capable of more but most cars cannot handle the increase in Stock for which is what they are going for. They made systems that spun up to 90,000 rpm but they weren't as reliable and parts wore our quicker and we're more expensive.

I can't comment on price yet as I am a tester / engineering trial. I will be providing them in depth analysis of all aspects of the system as I see it. I track all my mileage on fuely and have 30,000 on my car.

Thanks,



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[ft_sjo]

Contrary to popular belief, the MAF sensor doesn't 'add more fuel'. The ECU does, based on load readings. If the tables in the ECU are not scaled for those higher MAF readings, then you'll go lean and eventually misfire. That's if something doesn't melt first.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Contrary to popular belief, the MAF sensor doesn't 'add more fuel'. The ECU does, based on load readings. If the tables in the ECU are not scaled for those higher MAF readings, then you'll go lean and eventually misfire. That's if something doesn't melt first.

i agree, fueling issues are going to be the problem here. if it spikes to ~7psi you'll throw a CEL to begin with. and you're asking the ecu to learn was faster than it is designed to, then go back to normal, then back to boosted and so forth. tuning is going to be necessary for good, reliable operation.