Star Wars Episode VII -- SPOILERS INSIDE

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Hah so your only defense is "because I didn't like it"? "Because it impressed me when I was a kid"?

All stories are grandiose and operatic and mind blowing even when they're about trade routes and embargoes when you don't have the experience to evaluate it.

Take off the nostalgia goggles J, TFA is just as good as any other Star Wars movie.

How dare you, good sir. How dare you!

All kinds of stuff I loved as a kid fail to impress me now: Robotech, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, and CHiPs for starters.

Other things stand the test of time: Wasteland, everything Mel Brooks, Mad Max, and of course, Star Wars.

I get your point, that it's just nostalgia. I disagree. It's more than that. TFA is simply a cynical attempt to mine my nostalgia for cash, just like so many reboots today (GI Joe, Star Trek, Transformers) without delivering a product worth watching. I do, however, adore the opening sequence of the first Star Trek reboot film; birth, love, sacrifice, and death all at once.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Guff

Now back to star wars! I only saw Indiana Jones Goes to The Snowy Mountain, which I think was 5? So, I'm not particularly crazy about the series. I might watch the latest one soon, but I just bring myself to get excited about it.

Yeah, you should have seen Indiana Jones and the Moon of Doom first.

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No, that's John Boyega charming the pants off of everything within sight, that dude is like if Harrison Ford had the social skills to match the looks.

Watch Attack the Block, he is going to be making movies for a long time.

No no, full credit to John! I meant Disney, there is no way they got that one on skill. The character just ended up standing out; I think more than intended. He better be all up in the next movies.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No, that's John Boyega charming the pants off of everything within sight, that dude is like if Harrison Ford had the social skills to match the looks.

Watch Attack the Block, he is going to be making movies for a long time.

Agreed on Boyega. He had decent dialogue but more importantly the skill to add life to his part. In interviews, he's got charisma, wit, and charm. A likeable smart dude. He's probably going to have a better acting career than Mark Hamil. Probably not Harrison Ford though. Still Ford had some of the biggest directors in their absolute prime helping to make him an icon. Peeps should definitely keep an eye on Boyega.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

How dare you, good sir. How dare you!

All kinds of stuff I loved as a kid fail to impress me now: Robotech, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, and CHiPs for starters.

Other things stand the test of time: Wasteland, everything Mel Brooks, Mad Max, and of course, Star Wars.

I get your point, that it's just nostalgia. I disagree. It's more than that. TFA is simply a cynical attempt to mine my nostalgia for cash, just like so many reboots today (GI Joe, Star Trek, Transformers) without delivering a product worth watching. I do, however, adore the opening sequence of the first Star Trek reboot film; birth, love, sacrifice, and death all at once.

When's the last time you watched the original Star Wars movies? Like I said, polished B-movies imo, I can be really harsh but I love the OT and I love TFA. I guess my beef is that TFA is getting judged harshly by people that give the OT a free pass on the same issues (2D characters, mediocre writing (specifically dialog), thin ripped off plot).

One thing the new movies absolutely nail that none of the others did was they 'show not tell'. If you haven't watched the Plinkett/Redletter media reviews of the prequels please do. "Poe is our best pilot" 10 minutes into the movie he pilots a TIE Fighter for the first time into atmosphere and survives and his reappearance shows him wrecking half a dozen fighters in 30 seconds. They'll never have to write a bit of dialog of Poe and Finn reminiscing about when they were friends because they've already shown their relationship develop. Finn will never have to try and convince the camera "I was so scared to leave the order" he showed it on his face and with his actions. Rey will never have to describe that she barely scratched out a living on Jakku with a long winded exposition tirade when she inevitably gets mad at being dumped there.

TFA does so many things right that the others did wrong.

Dude, GI Joe and Transformers were literally 20 minute advertisements to sell toys in the 80's, nothing more. Not to mention the Ewoks, ROTJ was a toy commercial in itself giving every character two+ outfits so they could sell 100 different Luke Skywalker dolls (Tatooine Luke, Stormtrooper Luke, X-Wing Pilot Luke, Rebel Ceremony Luke, Bounty Hunter Leia, Princess Leia, Slave Leia, Carbonite Han). Again, I just hate that TFA is subjected to criticism that the OT is immune to, it's a bullshit nostalgia driven double standard.

Star Trek got bastardized, no argument. I was happy to hear JJ wasn't directing it and then they signed on the fucking fast and furious guy. This is my biggest source of worry, that Star Trek got turned into simplified trash and were looking at movie #3 of more of the same.

I love TFA, but if VIII is more of the same I'll be on your side, I'm hoping it evolves and grows, that's something Disney has shown it can do (I'm really enjoying MCU, especially the smaller stuff like Agents of Shield and DD and JJ on Netflix). Very glad to here JJ is stepping away from this and his early buzz about the VIII script being something totally different from Star Wars past.

Fingers crossed, I really hope we get an Obi Wan movie out of Disney with McGregor getting another chance with a decent script, he did such a good job and clearly has his heart in the right place. He's the right age and he didn't sit on Tatooine with his thumb up his ass for 19 years. I could give two shits about a Han Solo movie, one of my favorite things about TFA is it really exemplified how much of a 'hero' he is.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I came in ready to be disappointed, I lowered my expectations, I was prepared to savage it, I have friends that I respect their film opinions who did and I think they're absolutely wrong. It's trendy to be contrarian and I think it's silly in this case.

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

No no, full credit to John! I meant Disney, there is no way they got that one on skill. The character just ended up standing out; I think more than intended. He better be all up in the next movies.

He'll definitely be around, I loved how Disney's marketing material was all "Finn doing stuff" "Finn with a lightsaber!" "Finn was a stormtrooper" when the real damn hero is Rey. Definitely an old bullshit marketing tactic to sell toys to boys and not have them go 'eww I don't want to see a movie about a girl' but I went in blind and was pleasantly surprised that Rey is the real protagonist.

Anyway, I think Finn works solely because of Boyega. A good actor can turn a nonsense bullshit wreck of a scene into gold. I always heard and accepted this at face value but it didn't click until I was digging into some interviews about Parks and Rec, and something clicked when the creator said "We don't write jokes for Adam Scott he takes regular lines and makes them funny" and Chris Pratt is gold on that show, they were supposed to be rid of his character after season 1 but he charmed his way into being a regular.

It's easy to point to improvised moments and comedy, people like Robin Williams, Bill Murray, John Candy, Jim Belushi and even Chevy Chase can make taxes funny. But the good ones Deniro, Brando, Daniel Day Lewis, Depp, can add depth and entertainment to even the most bland of characters that shouldn't stick in your mind.

I think Boyega is one of those actors who can turn simple dialog into a compelling interaction. TFA's dialog was middling at best, very bland on it's own, it could have easily fallen as flat as the prequels with not even a unique plot backbone to keep it afloat, Boyega absolutely took a blank character and made him likable.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Agreed on Boyega. He had decent dialogue but more importantly the skill to add life to his part. In interviews, he's got charisma, wit, and charm. A likeable smart dude. He's probably going to have a better acting career than Mark Hamil. Probably not Harrison Ford though. Still Ford had some of the biggest directors in their absolute prime helping to make him an icon. Peeps should definitely keep an eye on Boyega.

Hamill got the shaft, I hope he sees a renaissance after 8 (hopefully) puts him in the spotlight.

I'm honestly surprised Ford has done so well in film, so many of his movies are shit and he really struggles on camera without a script (interviews and such). He had a magic decade where he was in absolute gold year after year but after that it was pretty hit and miss. If Boyega can pick good scripts consistently I think he could easily outshine Ford in the long run, as you mentioned Boyega does really well in interviews and such, given how influential social media is now he's going to hit it off with Gen-Y and Gen-Z he just has to be in good projects and avoid the typecasting.

Thinking about this really drove home how highly skilled the group that made the first Star Wars was, Fisher went on to become a highly regarded writer.

For anyone that hasn't read it, the story of Marcia Lucas is quite interesting, definitely a reminder that the original Star Wars very nearly stood on the precipice of forgettable if certain choices weren't made in the editing room.

This is a great read:
http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryo...rcialucas.html

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

When's the last time you watched the original Star Wars movies?

This past year. Like most Star Wars fans, I re-watched the series before seeing the new film.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

TFA does so many things right that the others did wrong.

Yes, TFA totally did many things better, but like I said, the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Dude, GI Joe and Transformers were literally 20 minute advertisements to sell toys in the 80's, nothing more. Not to mention the Ewoks, ROTJ was a toy commercial in itself giving every character two+ outfits so they could sell 100 different Luke Skywalker dolls (Tatooine Luke, Stormtrooper Luke, X-Wing Pilot Luke, Rebel Ceremony Luke, Bounty Hunter Leia, Princess Leia, Slave Leia, Carbonite Han). Again, I just hate that TFA is subjected to criticism that the OT is immune to, it's a bullshit nostalgia driven double standard.

Star Wars has always had a large toy selling component. No argument there. It's the ultimate toy seller. With TFA, that feels like all there is. ROTJ was arguably the weakest of the original trilogy, but it also brought the final confrontation. It tied up the loose ends. It It brought the saga to a satisfying conclusion. The Ewoks may have been a jaded toy-selling attempt that totally worked on me, but it's a joy watching them kick some Empire ass. It's also pretty fun watching them die, TBH. As for the outfits and such, I dunno man; I change my clothes every day.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Star Trek got bastardized, no argument. I was happy to hear JJ wasn't directing it and then they signed on the fucking fast and furious guy. This is my biggest source of worry, that Star Trek got turned into simplified trash and were looking at movie #3 of more of the same.

Can you worry about that which is certain? I think lamenting is the proper word. The original FF movie was OK--. The rest were jokes, yo.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I came in ready to be disappointed, I lowered my expectations, I was prepared to savage it, I have friends that I respect their film opinions who did and I think they're absolutely wrong. It's trendy to be contrarian and I think it's silly in this case.

I have no preference for being contrarian or not. I think Taylor Swift is a great entertainer. Pop culture does not offend me. If you look at the music in my playlist, the vast majority was, at some point, in the Billboard Hot 100, and the majority probably in the top 10. Most of my favorite films are IMDB 250.

Then again, some of people's most favorite films, like the most recent two Batman films, are garbage to me. Actually, I think The Dark Knight bothers me for much the same reason TFA offends me: the Joker is the Force and the Force is the Joker. He manipulates in god-like ways, perfectly controlling every character, exactly as the Force does in TFA. When the characters essentially have no role in their fates, when the manipulation is so impossibly annoying, I lose all interest. It's completely unlike the manipulation of the Gods in something like Oedipus Rex, where Oediupus's defiance of the Gods is the exact thing that drives him towards his horrible fate. What is interesting about a story without free will? Nothing.

[Dadhawk]

Saw it on Christmas Day with my 3 sons, the only day we were all able to be together.
My experience with Star Wars is similar to what @Tcoat described. I saw them through original release, always thought of them as a "cowboy in space" movie, and never really got into the universe outside the movies.

TFA was a winner in my book. It returned the series back to its origins, and closer to the original style. I really am not a fan of I/II/III at all. I can watch them but they just don't feel "right".

The one thing I did not like in TFA is the continued use of CGI for primary characters. Sorry, but as far as it has come, it is still totally distracting. The whole scene with the "little bug eyed lady" (whose name escapes me) was awful. It pulled me right out of the movie and had me evaluating their use of the tech. It was just painfully distracting for me.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Then again, some of people's most favorite films, like the most recent two Batman films, are garbage to me. Actually, I think The Dark Knight bothers me for much the same reason TFA offends me: the Joker is the Force and the Force is the Joker. He manipulates in god-like ways, perfectly controlling every character, exactly as the Force does in TFA. When the characters essentially have no role in their fates, when the manipulation is so impossibly annoying, I lose all interest. It's completely unlike the manipulation of the Gods in something like Oedipus Rex, where Oediupus's defiance of the Gods is the exact thing that drives him towards his horrible fate. What is interesting about a story without free will? Nothing.

How is that different from the original? What if the Star Destroyer gunner had shot down C3P0 and R2D2's escape pod? On a whole planet they land within 3 days of the Lars ranch? Luke runs off just in time to avoid stormtrooper assault on his farm, what if he had slept in? If the stormtroopers got up early? If they picked any other pilot in Mos Eisley at the time? That That the remains of Alderaan didn't pulverize the Millenium Falcon instantaneously? I'm not even halfway through the movie yet.

The Force was always the Joker. Like I said, I don't mind criticism, I just mind that the OT gets a free pass on the same criticism leveled at TFA.

It's alright that you didn't like it, I'm really ok with that, but to not like it because you're not an impressionable kid anymore is just being blasè.

To the rest of your post I just nod in agreement.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

The one thing I did not like in TFA is the continued use of CGI for primary characters. Sorry, but as far as it has come, it is still totally distracting. The whole scene with the "little bug eyed lady" (whose name escapes me) was awful. It pulled me right out of the movie and had me evaluating their use of the tech. It was just painfully distracting for me.

Like I said, it was the Oracle from The Matrix, and yeah, the CGI characters are just awful. They're better than they were in Eps 1-3, but they're awful. At least it's not as bad as The Hobbit trilogy.

I found myself pulling out my phone multiple times to check how much of the movie was left. I wanted a progress bar at the bottom of the screen. The Oracle part was one of those times.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Like I said, it was the Oracle from The Matrix, and yeah, the CGI characters are just awful. They're better than they were in Eps 1-3, but they're awful. At least it's not as bad as The Hobbit trilogy..

I should have clarified that this was not meant to be a dig against just Star Wars, it's just bad in general regardless of the movie. It really bothers me most with "humanoid" characters. In a full animation feature, or video game, I overlook it because it is what it is, but in a "mixed cast" it just doesn't work for me. Avatar was totally lost on me because of it.


I have read there are a lot of theories on this (prevailing one is the "the uncanny valley"), and it has to do with it having gotten to where it is very close to looking real, but just off enough that it triggers defense mechanisms in our brains. (the "hey, something is moving in the bushes because those limbs aren't blowing the way they should" stuff).


Here is one good article on it. http://www.livescience.com/16600-cgi...cientists.html


"In other experiments, MacDorman's team showed that people feel particularly disconcerted when characters have extremely realistic-looking skin mixed with other traits that are not realistic, such as cartoon eyes. "

[EAGLE5]

I agree. Ever seen the work of Chris Cunningham?

[mav1178]

Every time someone wants to put the original 1977 film on a pedestal, I just want to point out how bad it is.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsb9ZTmbSKQ"]Honest Trailers - Star Wars - YouTube[/ame]

[jawn]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I should have clarified that this was not meant to be a dig against just Star Wars, it's just bad in general regardless of the movie. It really bothers me most with "humanoid" characters. In a full animation feature, or video game, I overlook it because it is what it is, but in a "mixed cast" it just doesn't work for me. Avatar was totally lost on me because of it.


I have read there are a lot of theories on this (prevailing one is the "the uncanny valley"), and it has to do with it having gotten to where it is very close to looking real, but just off enough that it triggers defense mechanisms in our brains. (the "hey, something is moving in the bushes because those limbs are blowing the way they should" stuff).


Here is one good article on it. http://www.livescience.com/16600-cgi...cientists.html


"In other experiments, MacDorman's team showed that people feel particularly disconcerted when characters have extremely realistic-looking skin mixed with other traits that are not realistic, such as cartoon eyes. "

I was going to bring this up. I think it's why Dawn of the Planet of the Apes worked so well - not human, but very realistic. I wasn't in love with some of the creature design in TFA, but I also didn't care for a lot of the creature design in the Prequel Trilogy, either.

[Special_K]

Saw the movie, loved it. The feels I got from seeing the original cast back in action was great. That is all.