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Old 10-31-2015, 12:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Re_Invention View Post
I'd buy the base $150,000

Come on - we are talking about a six figure status toy here. The sports-car purity argument can only go up to six figures anyway: 370z, Cayman, 4C, Corvette, GT350 - the client expectation is, rightfully, different from thereon out for any volume (relative) vehicle from any major brand.
Other 6 figure exotics aren't super isolated, overly complicated/heavy, and only good at.. uhm.. being a technological example of what a mfr can do.

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Of course you get bonus points for trying something different! I'll recognize Acura for trying and if I could vote (with my wallet), just like 911 with their assbackwards engine placement AND STICKING WITH IT! HAHAH Add more weight if that means more creative thinking, what difference will another 200 lbs make if the engineering can make sense of it. I won't care much what the steering feel is like at 124 mph - I'll be too busy parking, doing hard launches and 60-120 rolls on the freeway.
Not if it fails you do.

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If I'm dropping the coin to lease a $175,000 leisure car, and I'm a car guy, I'm at the point where I've got a toy-hauler and a race car (or better yet a formula toy!) that I can obsess about weight over. If I got serious coin there's plenty of serious track-stars to custom order from manufactures & outfits. Deep six figures and beyond.

I want a 'neat' supercar toy to discuss with my cohorts over coffee on Saturday mornings. In my head it's NSX or i8 for my technocrat garage queen spot, right next to my gutted/caged S2K
Every car guy can be different. You like cars and coffee. Others actually like to enjoy the car they are DRIVING. Cars are meant to be driven IMO. And if I don't like driving it, I won't own it. I don't care which car it is.

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Wolf - I know you're a track-junkie-type, so I'm poking a little fun at ya but it's almost ironic that this car would get flak on a Twins forum... It's the anti-conformity that makes this car (and the twins ) so cool and ought to be celebrated to that extent. Maybe it doesn't pan out financially, maybe it's a terrible car, maybe it's the slowest of all the super cars and it just gets worse and worse over the years. But like the i8, it is objectively undeniably different for its price point and any sort of innovation should be encouraged. I'd rather have a smorgasbord of unique options than the cookie-cutter one-up-man-ship on the same formula that we've had over the past decade. Super cars are beginning to feel like contemporary pop music
This car is everything the Twins are against. I love why the twins were built. I hate that Honda did this. Every Honda racer, DE guy and even *employees* aren't a fan of this result. I am sure some execs love it, but the die hard performance side of the house... eh...
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Old 10-31-2015, 03:35 PM   #30
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I never understood why anyone was a fan of the NSX. Unlike the Civics, the NSX under performed in every single category and was just not a good sports car. Of course the next one if it is ever actually produced will do the same thing. Honda doesn't care about enthusiasts, they lucked into them the last time around then deliberately turned their backs from them by destroying their cars.
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Old 10-31-2015, 04:48 PM   #31
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This car is everything the Twins are against. I love why the twins were built. I hate that Honda did this. Every Honda racer, DE guy and even *employees* aren't a fan of this result. I am sure some execs love it, but the die hard performance side of the house... eh...
Right, let cars and car guys be different. The single track-mindedness that brought so much criticism onto the twins from folks saying they need more power, they need more this or that, is coming onto the NSX from folks saying it needs to be light, needs to be simpler needs to be this or that. The irony is it's coming from the twins advocates whom ought to be more empathetic to the ignorant criticisms of calling a circle a square. And that's the reason why I'm wasting time posting here - it's a matter of principal in hypocrisy. People can have opinions but s***ing on something because it doesn't line up with their own world view is ignorant.

Not all philosophies need to be the same. I, too, love the philosophy that built the twins and 911's and the Veyron and the Model S and etc. etc. etc. Let the car be on its own merit - that it is among the first in the mainstream to try a multi-motor approach at a reasonable price. For the technocrats, who also like to drive (I like how you framed that into mutually exclusive groups ), this is an interesting car.

Follow the middle path - accept it for what it is and don't disparage it for what it isn't. It isn't taking the fun of driving away from you, it isn't preventing you from enjoying driving.

Or hate on it, who cares...

Race track jingoism.. what is this, a miata forum?
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Old 10-31-2015, 04:58 PM   #32
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I just hope its steering isn't overly light like so many luxury cars these days.
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Re_Invention View Post
Right, let cars and car guys be different. The single track-mindedness that brought so much criticism onto the twins from folks saying they need more power, they need more this or that, is coming onto the NSX from folks saying it needs to be light, needs to be simpler needs to be this or that. The irony is it's coming from the twins advocates whom ought to be more empathetic to the ignorant criticisms of calling a circle a square. And that's the reason why I'm wasting time posting here - it's a matter of principal in hypocrisy. People can have opinions but s***ing on something because it doesn't line up with their own world view is ignorant.
It's really not ignorance in this case. If someone says the 86 sucks because it doesn't have enough power, I won't care about their opinion. Likewise, if someone says the Mustang/Camaro sucks because they don't corner well, I won't care either. If they said that it's not for them because they prefer cornering or power or whatever I can totally get behind that, because like you said there are "different car guys". The cars are built for different purposes.

However, in the case of the NSX what is this? It's entire design philosophy is against what the details tell us. It's heavy, it has excessive amounts of electronics, and a really poor performance mark for it's price. This would be all fine if it were marketed and designed as a premium luxury vehicle, but it's not. It's marketed and designed as a sports car but built like a luxury.

What real reason would you want this as a car enthusiast besides to "show off", or just to have the "brand new toy" as @Dave-ROR said, because those two reasons are pretty sad reasons...
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:50 PM   #34
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For my money, I'd rather have a 3000-3300 lb supercar with a reliable engine and a body constructed of lightweight materials. And that's it. It doesn't matter what kind of trickery you put in place, at the end of the day you're left with a heavy ass car when you dump electric motors and batteries into it. (I level the same criticism at the 918 as well - I'd rather have a CGT).

$20 says the 570S beats the NSX around most road courses. It's a valid comparison too, since their MSRPs will likely be within $10k of one another.
Think I'd go Caterham over a supercar for bonkers speed.



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I never understood why anyone was a fan of the NSX. Unlike the Civics, the NSX under performed in every single category and was just not a good sports car. Of course the next one if it is ever actually produced will do the same thing. Honda doesn't care about enthusiasts, they lucked into them the last time around then deliberately turned their backs from them by destroying their cars.
The same criticism is consistently leveled against Toyota and the 86 (and... well quite plainly just about every "sports car" they ever made) and it's very hard to refute imo when the Mustang and Miata can be better in almost every objective category for similar money and you can find cars that can outperform it resoundingly in many categories for less money like the Focus ST or GTI. Why did you buy an 86 then?

The same reason why people love the NSX, it's a perfect storm of select elements that may not objectively win a comparison but subjectively tick the boxes of a niche subset of enthusiasts. Reliable, nimble power:weight, mid-engined, rewarding handling dynamics, quality suspension, and the subjective bits like sound and looks, it really had it's own place in the market back in the 90's when Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and Mitsubishi were putting out front engined cars that shared components with the rest of their product line many used for years before and decades later they were a touch pedestrian while the NSX was a European super car that was from the ground up Japanese.

Edmunds had one as a long term test car a few years ago and it really struck me that even today the performance holds up without many sacrifices. I love the suspension walkaround, the forged aluminum wishbones are a thing of beauty.

http://www.edmunds.com/acura/nsx/199...erm-road-test/

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...alkaround.html
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ineedyourdiddly
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:31 PM   #35
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The Conundrum...

So the point of a super car is to have super fun. Now they're getting the hybrid treatment and blah blah blah...

And now I'm confused. Am I buying a super car for super fun or am I buying a daily driver?... Because let's be honest, a super car is not a daily driver. And if I can afford a super car, I don't necessarily care about saving fuel from an economic stand point (aka, I can afford gasoline) but if I do really care about no burning fuel I'm probably buying the P85D anyway.

So let's just say for the sake of argument that I'm spending 100k or so and I need to save the earth when not in "fun" mode yet I need my "fun mode" to be CRAZY fun.

I think I'd rather divide and conquer in this case and get one of these:



And one of these:



And be done with it.
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:38 PM   #36
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My previous post may be addressing the whole thing wrong.

I think about why I like the NA1 (original NSX) so damn much and the only real answer is... I just do.

Maybe that's all that matters.
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Old 10-31-2015, 07:18 PM   #37
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Right, let cars and car guys be different. The single track-mindedness that brought so much criticism onto the twins from folks saying they need more power, they need more this or that, is coming onto the NSX from folks saying it needs to be light, needs to be simpler needs to be this or that. The irony is it's coming from the twins advocates whom ought to be more empathetic to the ignorant criticisms of calling a circle a square. And that's the reason why I'm wasting time posting here - it's a matter of principal in hypocrisy. People can have opinions but s***ing on something because it doesn't line up with their own world view is ignorant.
There is no irony here. I dislike the new NSX for the same reasons I dislike other cars and the twins met my requirements in those areas. I don't see how that's hypocritical, ignorant or ironic.

There will be people who love the new NSX. Good for them (seriously). That doesn't mean I can't hate it for what it stands for. People put body kits on their cars, wax them constantly, etc. I think that's stupid too but if it makes the owners happy that's fine. It's still stupid though IMO. Again, nothing wrong with opinions. It's not ignorance though.
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Old 10-31-2015, 07:19 PM   #38
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I never understood why anyone was a fan of the NSX. Unlike the Civics, the NSX under performed in every single category and was just not a good sports car. Of course the next one if it is ever actually produced will do the same thing. Honda doesn't care about enthusiasts, they lucked into them the last time around then deliberately turned their backs from them by destroying their cars.
Against the Japanese cars of the time, it more than held it's own. It was built to defeat the others by virtue of the less is more mentality.
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Too many cars.. never.
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Old 11-02-2015, 02:06 PM   #39
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The original NSX was greater than the sum of it's parts in driver enjoyment. It's high praise when Gordon Murray was so impressed with the NSX that he used it to benchmark the handling of one of the greatest cars ever built, the McLaren F1.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:42 PM   #40
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In my personal opinion I in no way think a car "weighs too much" sitting at around 3700 and having 573hp, therefor it's power to weight ratio in no way scares me away, but rather its price tag.

$150k for an Acura is absurd, honestly $150k for any car in my opinion is insane. However, price tag aside, I think this car brings a unique driving experience and platform to the market, something that differs vastly from what it already out there and I do think this car will have its own niche group of buyers.

With that said, I personally would have to drive it to know but if it were priced around 50-60k and say only came with 350hp, I would probably be one of those niche drivers. I might be a bit biased though, as I use to own several vr-4s and they are still until this day, my favorite cars. In fact, if they were still being made, I would have never gotten an frs nor wrx at all.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:45 PM   #41
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Against the Japanese cars of the time, it more than held it's own. It was built to defeat the others by virtue of the less is more mentality.
It was a great car, but for me wasn't towards the top of my list. In fact of the 90's "super cars" it was never one I even considered. But I can appreciate why others loved it.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:53 PM   #42
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IDK, it doesn't look exotic like the 1st gen. Looks like Honda took bits and pieces from other manufacturers and rushed to create something.
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