Loss of Power Steering - 2013 Scion FRS Series 10

[IDFWU 420]

Wow I thought I was the only one!

I had this happen to me twice at RANDOM times so it was weird as fuck and my car is completely STOCK. First time was when I was on the freeway just crusing straight and the power steering just cut off, and I had to use no PS until I got to my destination.
Second time was on the street cruising to a stop sign and it cut off, so lucky I just pulled over, restart my car and power steering came back on.

It hasn't happened in a long time so I'm just puzzled why this shit was so fucking random.

This was like 1-2 years ago.

2015 FRS manual with only around 10K miles at that time too.

[pkat696]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I think this is a job for the dealer. Power steering issues are very very rare on here so there isn't really a good info base to work with.

Thanks Tcoat. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the answer. Based on advice on this forum, I will have to wait until it happens again and take it to the dealer during an incident. Or does it make sense to just take it in and have them take a look?

Thanks!!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by pkat696

Thanks Tcoat. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the answer. Based on advice on this forum, I will have to wait until it happens again and take it to the dealer during an incident. Or does it make sense to just take it in and have them take a look?

Thanks!!

I would have them take a look. As seen in the thread it could be as simple as a loose connection. You could probably check them yourself if you can get up under there but I would personally rather have a concern on record at the Dealer incase it is something more.

[mankarn86]

This just happened to me today. Driving slowly in a condo area (park lawn for those in Toronto). Got the steering wheel with the ! light on the dash and lost power steering. Only electrical mod to the car is an aftermarket deck. I'm at 130,000 kms so looks like I'm on my own.

I was googling eps Toyota and it looks like you may have to replace the whole rack? This going to be pricey :/

UPDATE: Car is at Toyota and they caught one of the codes - they mentioned Toyota recommends a re-callibration first. Hoping that's all it needs.

The only thing I can think of is I hit a railroad track very hard at decent speed - could have thrown something off.

[pkat696]

I thought we were done with this problem, but it happened again multiple times on May 27, and then again on May 28. We disconnected the power steering wiring harness for several minutes before reconnecting in July of 2017 and had not had a problem until two days ago. On May 27, we went on a lengthy drive that included some spirited driving on a twisty road. We drove for about two hours and then stopped for lunch. After lunch, there was about 30 minutes of twisties, and then once we hit the straight, the light came on and we lost power steering. We pulled over, shut the engine off, restarted, but the problem was still there. So we shut it off and let it sit for a while, and when we started the engine again, the problem was gone. It happened one more time on our way home, where cycling the engine got rid of the problem. The next day, it happened again on a very short drive.

I have yet to have an opportunity to bring it to the dealer while the power steering is out.

This is very frustrating and still a very big concern since my son now has his license and is driving this car by himself more often.

Has anyone found an actual solution yet?? Help please!!

[mankarn86]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

This just happened to me today. Driving slowly in a condo area (park lawn for those in Toronto). Got the steering wheel with the ! light on the dash and lost power steering. Only electrical mod to the car is an aftermarket deck. I'm at 130,000 kms so looks like I'm on my own.

I was googling eps Toyota and it looks like you may have to replace the whole rack? This going to be pricey :/

UPDATE: Car is at Toyota and they caught one of the codes - they mentioned Toyota recommends a re-callibration first. Hoping that's all it needs.

The only thing I can think of is I hit a railroad track very hard at decent speed - could have thrown something off.

This happened to me again almost a year later. I missed a track day yesterday at cayuga because of it.

Car was at the dealer and they pulled the code from the history - C1528 - Motor rotation angle sensor. This is the same code it threw almost a year ago - Toyota recalibrated the steering and it went away for about a year.

Here is what the service manual says on the code - it says depending on what happens in diagnostics to replace either the power steering ecu or the steering column assembly. Because Toyota cannot reproduce they are guessing and would have to replace both which is about $3k CDN. Not too confident in just recalibrating the steering again as this doesn't seem to solve the root problem. Anybody else having issues with power steering cutting?

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by mankarn86

This happened to me again almost a year later. I missed a track day yesterday at cayuga because of it.

Car was at the dealer and they pulled the code from the history - C1528 - Motor rotation angle sensor. This is the same code it threw almost a year ago - Toyota recalibrated the steering and it went away for about a year.

Here is what the service manual says on the code - it says depending on what happens in diagnostics to replace either the power steering ecu or the steering column assembly. Because Toyota cannot reproduce they are guessing and would have to replace both which is about $3k CDN. Not too confident in just recalibrating the steering again as this doesn't seem to solve the root problem. Anybody else having issues with power steering cutting?

Sounds pretty similar to that Australian TSB mentioned a while back in this thread.

[mankarn86]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

Sounds pretty similar to that Australian TSB mentioned a while back in this thread.

I've been going back and forth with Burlington Toyota and Toyota Canada on this issue. I got a hold of someone at TCI where we filled out a product incident report. It was a very serious form - hopefully and maybe I can be the scapegoat for other owners to get a recall or something. It's ridiculous any toyota product would cut power steering on the road.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[radroach]

Since this is a Toyota power steering unit, I wonder if there are any other car models affected, like the prius.

[pkat696]

Originally Posted by pkat696

I thought we were done with this problem, but it happened again multiple times on May 27, and then again on May 28. We disconnected the power steering wiring harness for several minutes before reconnecting in July of 2017 and had not had a problem until two days ago. On May 27, we went on a lengthy drive that included some spirited driving on a twisty road. We drove for about two hours and then stopped for lunch. After lunch, there was about 30 minutes of twisties, and then once we hit the straight, the light came on and we lost power steering. We pulled over, shut the engine off, restarted, but the problem was still there. So we shut it off and let it sit for a while, and when we started the engine again, the problem was gone. It happened one more time on our way home, where cycling the engine got rid of the problem. The next day, it happened again on a very short drive.

I have yet to have an opportunity to bring it to the dealer while the power steering is out.

This is very frustrating and still a very big concern since my son now has his license and is driving this car by himself more often.

Has anyone found an actual solution yet?? Help please!!

Was finally able to take it to my shop and they scanned it with a Snap-on SOLUS Ultra. In the history, it showed code C1528: Motor Rotation Angle Sensor. I left it with them to see if they could replicate the issue and get more information. Will update if I find out anything more.

[Roadcone]

mine has done it twice with the windows down while it was drizzling. first time was at 5-10mph pulling into a restaurant and the second time was while cruising at 70mph. both times it does just go out, it actively fights to hold the wheel in whatever position you're in. turn it off and back on and all was well the second time. the fist time it happened it kept happening after 30 seconds to five minutes of running. the car had been in the same state for 6 months or more each time its happened.

[pkat696]

Originally Posted by pkat696

Was finally able to take it to my shop and they scanned it with a Snap-on SOLUS Ultra. In the history, it showed code C1528: Motor Rotation Angle Sensor. I left it with them to see if they could replicate the issue and get more information. Will update if I find out anything more.

Sorry...forgot to provide an update after I picked the car up. The shop manager's cousin works at the parts counter at our local Toyota dealership and was able to get some insight on my issue. There have apparently been several instances of this issue brought into the Toyota dealership. The most common first step is to align the car. So, my shop did an alignment. They said the alignment wasn't bad on my car, but what the heck. They also said that they won't be able to address my issue and that I should take it to the Toyota dealership for them to start a case.

In addition, this may or may not be related, but my "ABS" and traction control lights started come on intermittently. Then, my clutch went out, so I brought it back to the shop to have that fixed. They thought the ABS and traction control lights might be related to the clutch, but they persisted after the clutch repair. I was finally able to bring it back to the shop and found the code to be P1604: Start Ability Malfunction. They looked the code up and called the dealership and told me that it could be the steering angle sensor or the ECU. Sounds like it could be related to my power steering issue. I'll give an update when I get the car back.

[scoot]

Originally Posted by radroach

Since this is a Toyota power steering unit, I wonder if there are any other car models affected, like the prius.

The Prius certainly has a spate of power steering issues - in fact the reason I'm here is to decide what to replace my Prius with. Looks like the hachi-roku just went off the list. Maybe I'll just buy a Buick Electra 225 and have a shop restore it. Cheaper than a new car...

Anyway, the Prius unit is the "inside the steering column" type. It uses a motor-driven worm gear to turn the steering wheel, a position sensor to see where it's pointed, and a rotary strain gauge to tell how hard the user is trying to turn the wheel. Notice I said "user", not "driver". Anyway.

Two common failure modes:

One is that the car suddenly starts trying to fight the turning of the wheel, and does so in pulses of about two per second. This is probably a failure of the position sensor. It makes the car basically undrivable - it isn't a bad idea to carry some wire cutters so you can snip the wires to the motor so you can limp home. At least it won't do this below 10mph, so you can crawl home.

The second failure mode is the worm gear itself. The steel worm gear is retained by a pair of bearings held into position with springs. Over time the springs will fail and the worm is no longer positioned positively. This causes the steering wheel to "chuckle" going over the slightest bumps. Eventually it will allow so much motion that the plastic gear the worm turns against will strip. Yes, the driver's life (potentially) depends on a plastic gear in the power steering. Anyway, it's a $USD 2200 part and the labor to get to it is... non trivial. There is a workaround. If you're persistent, you can get the end cap off of the housing that holds this abomination together. Grind a wedge about 3mm thick and maybe 4-5mm thick on the other end. Hammer the wedge in between the bearing and the housing. Button it back up and drive on. I'm told it will last about 6 months. I'm wondering about a combination of The Wedge and some epoxy putty. I'll just have to be really careful to keep the epoxy out of the rotating assembly.

You know what really worries me? The Prius has two idiot lights on the dash. The standard MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp, quoting FMVSS, but colloquially the CEL) indicates powertrain / emissions problems. The Red Triangle indicates any other failure. The 86, on the other hand, has a special, dedicated light that means "the power steering just failed". How did Toyota know this was going to happen enough to need it's own idiot light? Some engineer had to think "this is going to fail so much we ought to at least put a special warning light in there". I assume there's no warning light for "you need new wiper blades" or "the cylinder head just cracked", but it has one for power steering failure. Curious.

(I've heard every prius joke. It gets 48 mpg with the air on, the 200V battery will run a guitar amp directly for barn parties with no hum at all, and my el camino isn't exactly a daily driver. I'll miss running the amp without a mile of extension cords, but replacing the steering servo will wipe out anything I saved on fuel. )

[radroach]

@scoot post footage of prius guitar amp

Power steering failure is something I never want to think about. Though still interested in more info on our own electric steering unit.