Buying computer parts compared to suspension parts

[Anomie]

The world of car parts, namely suspension technology, progresses so fast and varies in so many different ways that I can't help but compare it to the world of computer parts. After I've built myself a new computer the technology immediately advances and changes for the better within a year (sometimes faster) and I find myself with out of date knowledge super quick if I I'm not continuously reading about it. So when I go to build myself a new machine a few years down the line I have to do a bunch of research again to get my knowledge back up to date.

Another similarity is that a lot of what you buy has to do with your personal preference, what you plan to use the setup for, and what you can afford (i.e. gaming vs media center vs multitasking etc.) just like you see with car suspensions (i.e. daily driving vs tracking vs slamming etc.).

The great thing is there are awesome sources to use to get great buying information fast in the computer world. For example, www.tomshardware.com (If you're a computer nerd like me I'm sure you've used this site many times). This website is awesome to quickly learn what fits perfectly for your needs and price range. Similarly, there are amazing sources here on the forums that provide us with expert info on the products we're researching every day (for example, CSG & RCE's Suspension Q&A thread)

But the one thing tom's has over these forums is how easily the information is acquired and compiled together for the "nonexperts" or "not up to date" people to use. What they do is release monthly "best ____ for the money" articles and quarterly "best configs" articles which I find to be extremely helpful in my education/buying process. Not only do they give reviews and recommendations on some of the best products available but they give great examples of what products are compatible with others, what products combine to make viable/effective setups, and what products don't work together which is awesome

This info is pretty much what 95% of the questions asked in these forums are anyway, (i.e. what products do you recommend?, what is your experience with said product?, what product will do what I'm looking for and be in my budget? and will this product work with these other products in my suspension setup?). So if all of this info is combined into a monthly article then you could probably avoid answering the same questions repeatedly.

The point of this thread is that I think, given the appropriate suspension experts, (like @CSG Mike and @Racecomp Engineering and others) a suspension article similar to these computer articles could be put together on a monthly or quarterly basis for the benefit of the community as a way to gain knowledge and make more educated buying decisions in a very similar fashion.

For example, in the "Best Graphics Cards for the Money" threads the article is broken up sort of in this way:

1) New updates/recent releases
2) Then they split up the cards based on price ranges and label as entry-level, mid-range, High-End, etc.
3) For each price range they give their recommendation, usually along with a couple honorable mentions and the technical info for each (GPU type, Clock speeds, memory, exact price, pictures etc).
4) Then they create a simple bar graph showing the hierarchy of all the products they recommended with their prices and provide some insight on which products give the best performance per dollar.

This could be done almost the same way or similarly with coilovers for example(This could obviously be done with most other aftermarket car parts as well, I'm just using suspension and coilovers as an example here.):

1) New updates/recent releases, maybe expected upcoming releases
2) Split up the coils based on price ranges and purpose (tracking/DD/slamming/etc.)
3) For each price range/category give your recommendation along with some honorable mentions and technical info for each (spring rates, adjustability, mono or twin tube, exact price, pictures etc.)
4)Simplify this info into a visual and provide some insight in which your best performance per dollar products are out the ones you recommended.

I think some of the vendors and experts who are active on these forums would be perfect for putting these together for the gt86/frs/brz community. They have the knowledge and they generally have exposure to most of the recommendable products on the market. They may not have the means or time to accurately measure differences and they may have some biased opinions, but that does not mean that their recommendations are not extremely useful when researching what you want to buy. I think they would certainly be a great starting point for anybody looking to learn some more and get pointed in the right direction.

Are there any experts who would be willing to dedicate the time into doing something like this? Like @CSG Mike or @Racecomp Engineering or @FT-86 SpeedFactory or @Moto-P to name a few.

And how many of you would also be interested in seeing something like this done? Obviously if I'm the only one then it wouldn't be worth their time to do something like this haha

Thanks for reading, hope this made sense!

[fatoni]

i dont really think that suspension is much like computer technology at all. maybe in that lower tier coilover game you can get a lot of different things popping up but a lot of the serious stuff is made by a pretty small group of companies. good luck in your search though.

[mav1178]

Two key differences:

- Tech industry media are provided a lot of perks to get their stuff tested. Trust me, I used to sample hardware to media and it was always "I need a new piece of equipment for my test rig, can you overnight it?" "Ok, we'll get a tiny mention!" type of situation.
- It's easy to test hardware and gauge performance. It's a hell of a lot harder to come out with a "best of" for suspension parts, mostly because of industry politics. There, I said it. Industry politics. Some of the best tech media out there are pretty much bribed to say good things... and a lot of reviews end up that way because of how many advertisements you buy. Pay to play, it's that simple.

I've dealt with politics in both of these industries for a LONG time, and in the end there will never the objective discussion and analysis you seek. Even with computer hardware, you don't truly get that.

Oh, and Tom's Hardware? Best of Media makes enough money to afford their editors some really, REALLY good perks(income). Top tier media like these websites bankroll a ton of ad revenue because of the traffic their site gets.

-alex

[utekineir]

A for effort

D for content

[CSG Mike]

Suspension doesn't actually evolve THAT quickly. 1 generation of computer tech takes roughly 18 months (Intel, nVidia), whereas 1 generation of suspension tech generally takes 7-10 years.

Side note: I build my own computers, and also used to do custom computers on the side for some extra cash back in high school. I currently use a 4+ year old box, that I have absolutely no slowdown complaints about, because it is well maintained, and contains carefully selected components (except when I'm rendering video...)

"specs"
i7-920
GTX260 c216
4x 1.5tb harddrives in Raid 5 system drive + scratch disk
4x 2tb in 0+1 NAS
9gb ram

"mods"
Thermalright Venomous-X, dual Noctua push-pull fan setup
Lian-Li PC60 modified for proper airflow and thermal management
3.8ghz stable OC on air


Laptop:

Sony Vaio Z
i5-520
4gb ram
dual GPU
-integrated GPU
-(forget model) nvidia gpu with 54 stream processors
CF reinforced frp case
forged aluminum chassis
heatpipe/copper finned internal cooling
3.2 lbs
7 hour business use battery life (measured, not rated)
5 year old design!


You get the idea. I'd consider myself more knowledgeable about computer hardware/software than suspension.

I'd also probably offend 95% of the forum, when I lump all the less expensive suspension options together.


Suspension is like buying a phone. You get what you pay for. If you take the "free" option, (US people), or get the cheaper option (international), it's obviously not going to be as good as the latest and greatest. I use a GS3.

[danthedirt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Suspension doesn't actually evolve THAT quickly. 1 generation of computer tech takes roughly 18 months (Intel, nVidia), whereas 1 generation of suspension tech generally takes 7-10 years.

Side note: I build my own computers, and also used to do custom computers on the side for some extra cash back in high school. I currently use a 4+ year old box, that I have absolutely no slowdown complaints about, because it is well maintained, and contains carefully selected components (except when I'm rendering video...)

"specs"
i7-920
GTX260 c216
4x 1.5tb harddrives in Raid 5 system drive + scratch disk
4x 2tb in 0+1 NAS
9gb ram

"mods"
Thermalright Venomous-X, dual Noctua push-pull fan setup
Lian-Li PC60 modified for proper airflow and thermal management
3.8ghz stable OC on air


Laptop:

Sony Vaio Z
i5-520
4gb ram
dual GPU
-integrated GPU
-(forget model) nvidia gpu with 54 stream processors
CF reinforced frp case
forged aluminum chassis
heatpipe/copper finned internal cooling
3.2 lbs
7 hour business use battery life (measured, not rated)
5 year old design!


You get the idea. I'd consider myself more knowledgeable about computer hardware/software than suspension.

I'd also probably offend 95% of the forum, when I lump all the less expensive suspension options together.


Suspension is like buying a phone. You get what you pay for. If you take the "free" option, (US people), or get the cheaper option (international), it's obviously not going to be as good as the latest and greatest. I use a GS3.

Wait you can fine tune suspension set up AND build your own raid array?I might have a new man crush *swoon* :sly:

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by danthedirt

Wait you can fine tune suspension set up AND build your own raid array?I might have a new man crush *swoon* :sly:

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I forgot to mention... the laptop also has 2x SSD in raid 0. There was an option for 4x SSD in raid 0, but it was a $1200 option at the time... I passed.

Desktop measures under 50db from 30" away at any offset angle. It was built to be silent. The fans on the TV I use as a screen are louder...

[danthedirt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I forgot to mention... the laptop also has 2x SSD in raid 0. There was an option for 4x SSD in raid 0, but it was a $1200 option at the time... I passed.

Desktop measures under 50db from 30" away at any offset angle. It was built to be silent. The fans on the TV I use as a screen are louder...

Stop it your making me blush...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Anomie]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Two key differences:

- Tech industry media are provided a lot of perks to get their stuff tested. Trust me, I used to sample hardware to media and it was always "I need a new piece of equipment for my test rig, can you overnight it?" "Ok, we'll get a tiny mention!" type of situation.
- It's easy to test hardware and gauge performance. It's a hell of a lot harder to come out with a "best of" for suspension parts, mostly because of industry politics. There, I said it. Industry politics. Some of the best tech media out there are pretty much bribed to say good things... and a lot of reviews end up that way because of how many advertisements you buy. Pay to play, it's that simple.

I've dealt with politics in both of these industries for a LONG time, and in the end there will never the objective discussion and analysis you seek. Even with computer hardware, you don't truly get that.

Oh, and Tom's Hardware? Best of Media makes enough money to afford their editors some really, REALLY good perks(income). Top tier media like these websites bankroll a ton of ad revenue because of the traffic their site gets.

-alex

This is definitely true and I acknowledged that there would certainly be some bias here (just like there are with almost every single product review ever written) and these suspension experts may not be afforded the means to test these systems as the computer industry may be allowed. But I think there is still some knowledge to be gained having all of these options combined into an easy to read article for comparison purposes.

Every time I see a new post from a supplier about this awesome new product they just got in stock I always think to myself, hey why are you not listing the specific technical details of this product and then comparing & contrasting them to similar products so the buyers can weight the pros and cons and make an educated decision? In every one of these coilover threads that pop up there's always the question a few posts later, how does this compare to _____ other coilover and which would you recommend for ____ purpose?

Would it not just then be easier to list all of this technical info and provide the comparison and possibly a biased recommendation right off the bat? Rather then having someone ask for it every time and then get a bunch of random and sometimes incredibly wrong information from "non experts" or people just simply telling them to search harder?

I think if one payed attention to these forums you would see how people are desperately trying to gain this information in order to compare different setups more thoroughly before they buy.

This is something I think the stickied "BRZ/FR-S Suspension Options List" thread tried to accomplish, having all this info in one place, but it has really not been kept updated and if the information you're looking for is even there it's only the bear minimum. Obviously, no offense to whoever is tasked with maintaining it, I know it's not an easy job whatsoever. But hey, if suppliers & experts were willing to put together this comparison information for us i think it would be that much easier to maintain no?

And yes @CSG Mike I think you're also right in that computer tech probably does advance much faster than suspension tech. I think the reason I'm comparing them now is because of how recently the FRS/BRZ hit the market. The aftermarket world is moving very quickly to get their R&D in on this platform and release their products for it, so while the technology has pretty much always been there, a lot of products are popping up relatively quickly for this relatively new platform. I assume this would most likely slow down dramatically in the future.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Anomie

And yes @CSG Mike I think you're also right in that computer tech probably does advance much faster than suspension tech. I think the reason I'm comparing them now is because of how recently the FRS/BRZ hit the market. The aftermarket world is moving very quickly to get their R&D in on this platform and release their products for it, so while the technology has pretty much always been there, a lot of products are popping up relatively quickly for this relatively new platform. I assume this would most likely slow down dramatically in the future.

Nearly every suspension for this car are existing dampers adapted to fit the car. Nothing is unique. When a new damper is released, it's not just for 1 platform. Rather, it'll be adapted to a lot of platforms.

How much R&D do you think a $1000 set of coilovers have in them? All they really do is take an existing damper, make sure it fits, and sell it. Their mentality is "most people are going to buy it because it's cheap anyways", and quite frankly, they're right.

As a reference point, our base price to rebuild/revalve dampers is $940, and most rebuilds cost more due to the parts needed. We also hold every single naturally-aspirated no-aero (in other words, pure mechanical grip) record for every track we have local access to for the FRS/BRZ, so I consider the cost of dialing in suspension quite justified.

[Anomie]

Well yes, obviously the cheaper setups do not have as much R&D behind them (if any at all) as the expensive setups. I don't think that's a proper reason behind not wanting to compare & contrast them with other products in their price range though, do you?

This is something that I think should be done in every price range, I guess you're just focusing on the 1000$ price point because that's where most of the options are.

This is something that's been implemented into almost all product industries, the ability to take whatever products you may be interested in and easily being able to compare the technical specifications of them via their suppliers. And some take it one step further by offering some recommendations (biased or not) based off that technical information and the consumer's specific goals/needs.

I guess it seems like this may just be something that's too much to ask for in the aftermarket car industry? I appreciate you taking the time to come here and have a conversation with me about it though, you guys are an amazing asset for this community.

[ZionsWrath]

I don't think so. Computer hardware is worthless/underperforming soon after it is released. Not to mention the depreciation (can it be called that if it is worth next to nothing?).

In 10 years a stock twin is still going to be a relatively well handling sport car. My i5, 8gb memory, 2gb video card, 80gb SSD in 10 years is going to be easier to throw out than to sell.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Anomie

Well yes, obviously the cheaper setups do not have as much R&D behind them (if any at all) as the expensive setups. I don't think that's a proper reason behind not wanting to compare & contrast them with other products in their price range though, do you?

This is something that I think should be done in every price range, I guess you're just focusing on the 1000$ price point because that's where most of the options are.

This is something that's been implemented into almost all product industries, the ability to take whatever products you may be interested in and easily being able to compare the technical specifications of them via their suppliers. And some take it one step further by offering some recommendations (biased or not) based off that technical information and the consumer's specific goals/needs.

I guess it seems like this may just be something that's too much to ask for in the aftermarket car industry? I appreciate you taking the time to come here and have a conversation with me about it though, you guys are an amazing asset for this community.

Asking which sub $1500 dollar suspension does the job best is like asking for the best $60 video card. All of them "work", but none of them are going to do a particularly good job.

I pick these price points, because a $15k suspension is roughly analogous to a $600 video card. Likewise, the ~4k SRCs we use on our BRZ is roughly analogous to a $200 video card, where the sweet spot is, for price/performance.

[FT-86 SpeedFactory]

A comparison of suspensions would be exhausting simply from a time stand point, not to mention labor and cost. Technology is so much easier to do because labor is simple, and then a benchmark is easy to run and always controlled.

I wish it would be something easier to do but the task of comparing them would be daunting to say the least. Almost need a magazine or other media outlet to do this test over 6-8 months time. Something like DSPORT did with exhausts. Even that was an impressive test due to all the time they had to put into it.