Has anyone had a warranty claim denied? Seized engine! Pics of teardown added 6/5

[jjaisli]

I don't want to drag this off topic, but I can't say I'm surprised [at Subaru's response]. My wife purchased a new Subaru Legacy GT wagon back in 2002. After less than 6 months, the AT started behaving oddly: it would suddenly start slipping at highway speed, sometimes it was fine, other times it would clunk and bang changing into gear, it would make strange noises. Once or twice it got stuck in park.

We brought it back to the dealer where we purchased the car from 3 times. Every time she was met with disdain, indifference and sarcasm from the service manager. After 3 visits over 2 months, of which she was repeatedly told there was nothing wrong with the transmission and allegations were made that maybe she was imagining everything, she finally gave up and made an appointment at another dealer. Before we could get it there, the transmission seized up completely on the highway and we had to have the car towed.

Dealer two replaced the transmission under warranty. In the meantime, I wrote a letter to the owner of the first dealership. I was cordial but expressed my displeasure at how we were treated. I never received a response, which shows just how little regard they exhibited once the sale was complete. Pathetic.

My wife started bringing the car to dealer number two, but it was out of the way and there were issues with that dealer as well. At the next scheduled service, her loaner wasn't available and they made no effort to accommodate her, offer her a ride, arrange for a rental, etc. She told them if that was the case she'd have to reschedule or she'd be late for work but they told her they had already started working on the car and she'd have to wait. Almost 3 hours later (for a basic 15K service), they were laughing and joking and making no effort to complete her paperwork quickly.

Six months later, the transmission started to exhibit the same symptoms as it had a few months before it blew. We couldn't believe it and began to have doubts if they really had replaced the transmission or just repaired it, or if there was a serious design flaw in the car. Dealer two was useless and gave us the same excuses as dealer one had in the beginning, despite the fact that they had replaced the transmission less than half a year before.

On to dealer number three, who behaved just as badly as dealer number one, even after we had explained what happened and they looked up the service history. The techs working behind the counters, AND their supervisors, at three different Northern New Jersey Subaru dealers, were like a throw back to how car dealers were back in the 70s, when people's expectations were very different.

We were treated like idiots. They were rude, condescending, unprofessional and borderline abusive. I even wrote a letter to Subaru detailing our experience. They DID write back but it was ridiculous. They basically claimed that they weren't responsible for their dealer network as they were all independently run and operated.

It was because of this experience, 9~10 years ago though it may be, that I never considered the BRZ and instead decided on the FR-S. I made up my mind that as long as I lived in this state, I would never, EVER, buy another Subaru. The Legacy was probably a lemon. We had other problems with it as well. It can happen. But how we were treated was inexcusable. And there was no way I was going to deal with that again.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by pascalbrax

Voiding warranty because "the car was raced" is utterly bullshit!

Originally Posted by regal

Notice Toyota in Bold, they have an entirely different philosophy to warranty and defects than Subaru. So there is hope.

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Toyota have also recently hosted track days in the UK for GT86 owners.

I'd like to present this excerpt from the Scion FR-S warranty guide (see attached).

The same disclaimer is found in Toyota's warranty booklet. I'm fairly sure you will see the same fine print in other regions.

As for "racing"... companies have a disconnect between their marketing and warranty/service departments. Just because a track day is hosted does not mean they are telling you it's okay to race your car.

In case you want to read the entire PDF in full:
http://a230.g.akamai.net/7/230/83646...ranty_2013.pdf

Oh, the best part? My '05 Camry has the exact same text in the warranty booklet.

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I'd like to present this excerpt from the Scion FR-S warranty guide (see attached).

The same disclaimer is found in Toyota's warranty booklet. I'm fairly sure you will see the same fine print in other regions.

As for "racing"... companies have a disconnect between their marketing and warranty/service departments. Just because a track day is hosted does not mean they are telling you it's okay to race your car.

In case you want to read the entire PDF in full:
http://a230.g.akamai.net/7/230/83646...ranty_2013.pdf

Oh, the best part? My '05 Camry has the exact same text in the warranty booklet.

-alex

It's such an open statement.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's such an open statement.

Same with what Subaru has... I think the main thing is, every car manufacturer will have this type of statement because as much as they support motorsports and enthusiasts, they still have a business to run.

Want to know what I found just now? Porsche, a car maker that almost exclusively sells sports cars, has a clause in their warranty that voids warranty if car is raced, even at Porsche-sanctioned driving events. See attached.

Bottom line is, this is not unique to Subaru. YMMV.

-alex

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

I don't want to drag this off topic, but I can't say I'm surprised. My wife purchased a new Subaru Legacy GT wagon back in 2002. After less than 6 months, the AT started behaving oddly: it would suddenly start slipping at highway speed, sometimes it was fine, other times it would clunk and bang changing into gear, it would make strange noises. Once or twice it got stuck in park.

We brought it back to the dealer where we purchased the car from 3 times. Every time she was met with disdain, indifference and sarcasm from the service manager. After 3 visits over 2 months, of which she was repeatedly told there was nothing wrong with the transmission and allegations were made that maybe she was imagining everything, she finally gave up and made an appointment at another dealer. Before we could get it there, the transmission seized up completely on the highway and we had to have the car towed.

Dealer two replaced the transmission under warranty. In the meantime, I wrote a letter to the owner of the first dealership. I was cordial but expressed my displeasure at how we were treated. I never received a response, which shows just how little regard they exhibited once the sale was complete. Pathetic.

My wife started bringing the car to dealer number two, but it was out of the way and there were issues with that dealer as well. At the next scheduled service, her loaner wasn't available and they made no effort to accommodate her, offer her a ride, arrange for a rental, etc. She told them if that was the case she'd have to reschedule or she'd be late for work but they told her they had already started working on the car and she'd have to wait. Almost 3 hours later (for a basic 15K service), they were laughing and joking and making no effort to complete her paperwork quickly.

Six months later, the transmission started to exhibit the same symptoms as it had a few months before it blew. We couldn't believe it and began to have doubts if they really had replaced the transmission or just repaired it, or if there was a serious design flaw in the car. Dealer two was useless and gave us the same excuses as dealer one had in the beginning, despite the fact that they had replaced the transmission less than half a year before.

On to dealer number three, who behaved just as badly as dealer number one, even after we had explained what happened and they looked up the service history. The techs working behind the counters, AND their supervisors, at three different Northern New Jersey Subaru dealers, were like a throw back to how car dealers were back in the 70s, when people's expectations were very different.

We were treated like idiots. They were rude, condescending, unprofessional and borderline abusive. I even wrote a letter to Subaru detailing our experience. They DID write back but it was ridiculous. They basically claimed that they weren't responsible for their dealer network as they were all independently run and operated.

It was because of this experience, 9~10 years ago though it may be, that I never considered the BRZ and instead decided on the FR-S. I made up my mind that as long as I lived in this state, I would never, EVER, buy another Subaru. The Legacy was probably a lemon. We had other problems with it as well. It can happen. But how we were treated was inexcusable. And there was no way I was going to deal with that again.

The new (naturally-aspirated no less) Outback we were test-driving actually overheated on a pretty tame test drive and stranded us...the salesman acted like it was no big deal...needless to say we left that Subaru dealership as soon as we were picked up (25 minutes later) and dropped off near our car.

[CSG Mike]

I was more referring to the legal definition of the word "racing".

It can be as loose as redlining the car going from one stoplight to the next, or as specific as only events where you must cross a finish line in front of other drivers on a close course.

If you participate in a rally held on public streets, is it "racing"? If you stomp on the gas pedal to go faster than the car next to you, is it "racing"?

[mav1178]

Ultimately there's wiggle room in there to be flexible for each type of situation.

The dictionary definition of the word would be a contest of speed, against a specific objective (not necessarily time).

So yes, both of what you said could be defined as racing.

My post isn't necessarily debating what is racing... it's to say that the warranty stipulations are virtually the same between car manufacturers on the issue of "racing" your car when the same car maker's marketing arm tells you to race the car.

That's how marketing works, and I personally don't see any issues with it. As for warranty, that just varies from case to case.

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Ultimately there's wiggle room in there to be flexible for each type of situation.

The dictionary definition of the word would be a contest of speed, against a specific objective (not necessarily time).

So yes, both of what you said could be defined as racing.

My post isn't necessarily debating what is racing... it's to say that the warranty stipulations are virtually the same between car manufacturers on the issue of "racing" your car when the same car maker's marketing arm tells you to race the car.

That's how marketing works, and I personally don't see any issues with it. As for warranty, that just varies from case to case.

-alex

"Here's a condom. It's supposed to prevent pregnancies and STD transmissions. But, if you actually use it and it doesn't do any of the things we said it would do, it's not our fault".

Sadly, true.

[strat61caster]

Welcome to capitalism 101.



Edit: goddamn it now I want the crappy burger even though there's an In n Out right across the street...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Welcome to capitalism 101.



Edit: goddamn it now I want the crappy burger even though there's an In n Out right across the street...

Jack in the Box burgers/sandwiches always look like a picture... excellent QC.

[thill]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Same with what Subaru has... I think the main thing is, every car manufacturer will have this type of statement because as much as they support motorsports and enthusiasts, they still have a business to run.

Want to know what I found just now? Porsche, a car maker that almost exclusively sells sports cars, has a clause in their warranty that voids warranty if car is raced, even at Porsche-sanctioned driving events. See attached.

Bottom line is, this is not unique to Subaru. YMMV.

-alex

I will say it again. If you plan on tracking the car, just don't advertise it all over the Internet (forums, Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, etc).

All this talk of DI failures and people getting denied for tracking the car really put a damper on my tracking my car at all. For now, I will stay away. Not worth losing the warranty.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Jack in the Box burgers/sandwiches always look like a picture... excellent QC.

Now if McD's killed and/or sickened a few dozen people after they ate its product, you would see a ton of QC improvements from them as well.

[thill]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I'd like to present this excerpt from the Scion FR-S warranty guide (see attached).

The same disclaimer is found in Toyota's warranty booklet. I'm fairly sure you will see the same fine print in other regions.

As for "racing"... companies have a disconnect between their marketing and warranty/service departments. Just because a track day is hosted does not mean they are telling you it's okay to race your car.

In case you want to read the entire PDF in full:
http://a230.g.akamai.net/7/230/83646...ranty_2013.pdf

Oh, the best part? My '05 Camry has the exact same text in the warranty booklet.

-alex

Well according to the DI poll one Toyota was denied warranty replacement for a failed engine related to DI. So it is possible Toyota used the "race" angle on that one..

[ayau]

Originally Posted by thill

I will say it again. If you plan on tracking the car, just don't advertise it all over the Internet (forums, Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, etc).

All this talk of DI failures and people getting denied for tracking the car really put a damper on my tracking my car at all. For now, I will stay away. Not worth losing the warranty.

You can always autox. It doesn't put nearly as much stress as track days. LMK if you need more info regarding the local MN autox sites. Just register online under a different car make/brand. Subaru will have no idea, and the local club won't care.