The need for an oil cooler when going FI (Temperature Data Inside)

[Ironsquid]

Originally Posted by spdbydesign

Just become it hasn't been discussed on a forum, doesn't meant issues have not risen from the lack of proper cooling modifications.

You sir are chasing a white rabbit.

There's no evidence to the contrary, but there is evidence that motors run fine with synthetics today with 220+ temps, all day long, in the heat, for years.

I know the track only Porsche guys see 280+ and usually swap out the piston rings for good measure after the season is over, but this is purely PMI.

But we're not talking 280+

Running an oil cooler is fine, I run one for good measure (PMI). It's definitely not necessary for everyday driving/autox.

[jamesm]

i ran my turbo without an oil cooler for a year in florida with no ill effects. i have one now, but only because i found a great deal locally on one.

i agree it's a good idea, but it's certainly not a 'must have or your car is doomed' type of thing like some suggest. modern synthetics don't even begin to degrade until well above the temps that i ever saw in the summer with the turbo and no cooler.

if you talking about 30 minute track sessions that's a whole different story, but then in that case you'd want one on any car, FI or not.

[Jason@DSG]

Originally Posted by Ironsquid

I'm seeing about 215F in 90F mountain driving and about 220F in 95F Florida during autoX.

I'll be at Sebring in June, should be fun, but I'm not worried about oil temps.

The Porsche guys are closer to 275F on the track.

Synthetic oil has come a long way.

Are you comparing Porsche engine internals versus an FRS? lolz

The OIL itself can handle the temperature agreed, it's the engine /turbo that can't. This is a non-FI engine already producing quite a bit of heat, throw in FI and multiple pulls in the heat, the long term affects on seals, head gasket, internals, etc. will be not good, trust me (coming from a guy who has blown a few engines racing )

[Sportsguy83]

Honestly, I got an oil cooler primarily because of Dyno results showing that after 230 F, the ECU starts pulling timing.

OR more accurately, that is what Perrin dyno results showed.

[Ironsquid]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

Are you comparing Porsche engine internals versus an FRS? lolz

The OIL itself can handle the temperature agreed, it's the engine that can't. This is a non-FI engine already producing quite a bit of heat, throw in FI and multiple pulls in the heat, the long term affects on seals, head gasket, internals, etc. will be not good, trust me (coming from a guy who has blown a few engines racing )

To your surprise, most of the engine internals in today's market are quite similar.

I'd also be willing to bet that oil breaks down before metal, I'm no scientist but seems legit.

I also don't trust people that have off-hand wild comments followed by "trust me" (and the fact that I actually don't know you).

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Honestly, I got an oil cooler primarily because of Dyno results showing that after 230 F, the ECU starts pulling timing.

Have you or James ever seen that in an EcuTek log? I remember hitting 260Fs after 4 or 5 third gear pulls, haha.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

Are you comparing Porsche engine internals versus an FRS? lolz

The OIL itself can handle the temperature agreed, it's the engine that can't. This is a non-FI engine already producing quite a bit of heat, throw in FI and multiple pulls in the heat, the long term affects on seals, head gasket, internals, etc. will be not good, trust me (coming from a guy who has blown a few engines racing )

i think the issue is the disconnect between what most people actually use these cars for and what the vast minority that race them (yourself included) use them for. i don't think anyone is arguing that if you're building a race car you could stand to benefit in terms of reliability by adding a cooler. the reality though is that this is an enthusiast forum, and the vast majority of the audience here doesn't use them that way. they're building quick street cars, not race cars (though some may not want to admit it ).

racing breaks things. we all get that... but we're not racing.

again i'm not saying it's not a good idea in any case... FI, NA, street, track whatever. I'm just saying that there is more alarmism than realism on these forums when it comes to what is actually 'required' vs. what is a 'good idea'.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Have you or James ever seen that in an EcuTek log? I remember hitting 260Fs after 4 or 5 third gear pulls, haha.

I have a few logs I can check out from another car, but have never reached 230 on my car yet after radiator/oil cooler.

[Jason@DSG]

To reiterate...you're all missing the point. It's NOT about oil degradation, it's about the internals of this engine under those temperatures long term.

Why do you think the following Turbo cars come standard with oil coolers:

EvoX, GTR, STi, etc.


It's not the actual oil that's the concern but to each their own. We'll follow up this convo for guys going FI after 5 years of ''spirited driving'' and tracking with 220+ oil temps on a regular basis.


Good article:
http://www.examiner.com/article/oil-...surance-policy

[Sniper2606]

Remind me not to ever log and research anything here, seems like some of you guys are extremely unappreciated.

Chris is just trying to keep the car safe and you guys are just shitting all over him.

Regardless if 220F is "normal temp" i rather have my temps run lower.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=1&t=31363

Helpful to read.

Interesting stuff in there.

5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM = 280*

5W30 Mobil 1, API SN = 265*

10W30 Lucas Racing Only = 290*

5W50 Motorcraft, API SN = 275*

10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil = 300*, the BEST in this test

20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN = 275*

5W20 Castrol Edge w/Titanium, API SN = 280*

10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil = 280*

5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN = 280*

10W30 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, silver bottle = 260*, the WORST in this test

0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 = 280*

5W30 Royal Purple XPR = 285*

The above info also makes a good case for running an effective oil cooler setup, if one is needed to keep the oil safely below the threshold of thermal breakdown. But you may also need an oil cooler thermostat as part of that type of setup as well, so that the oil doesn’t end up too cool. You should keep oil temps above 212*F to keep the normal engine condensation quickly boiled off, rather than just slowly evaporated off. You don’t want to allow slowly evaporating water to have the chance to mix in with the oil and dilute it. Oil can only be thinned out by becoming diluted with coolant/water or fuel. And oil can only get thicker by getting overheated and vaporizing its lighter components. So, an ideal temperature range for most motor oils in general, would be between 220*F and 250*F. You get the idea, not too cold, not too hot, just right.

It looks like the non oil cooler temps were spot on.

[Jason@DSG]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i think the issue is the disconnect between what most people actually use these cars for and what the vast minority that race them (yourself included) use them for. i don't think anyone is arguing that if you're building a race car you could stand to benefit in terms of reliability by adding a cooler. the reality though is that this is an enthusiast forum, and the vast majority of the audience here doesn't use them that way. they're building quick street cars, not race cars (though some may not want to admit it ).

racing breaks things. we all get that.

I'm specifically talking for any FI application being added to this car to cool the turbo and all seals/gaskets inside the engine which are not designed to withstand those temperatures. (not referring to OEM NA cars, occasional pulls).

Like I said, to each their own but if you put FI on this car and think that 220-250f oil temperatures are okay, then power to you but that's just loco!

[Jason@DSG]

Originally Posted by Sniper2606

Remind me not to ever log and research anything here, seems like some of you guys are extremely unappreciated.

Chris is just trying to keep the car safe and you guys are just shitting all over him.

And people also don't get that yes, short term it's not an issue but a non-factory turbo charged car that has no turbo cooling/oil cooling is a ticking time bomb.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

I'm specifically talking for any FI application being added to this car to cool the turbo and all seals/gaskets inside the engine which are not designed to withstand those temperatures. (not referring to OEM NA cars, occasional pulls).

Like I said, to each their own but if you put FI on this car and think that 220-250f oil temperatures are okay, then power to you but that's just loco!

my car ran ~230f bone stock... so if that's the case (re: gasket materials and what not) then toyota has some serious warranty concerns coming down the line.