Frs vs s2000

[vhx1]

Originally Posted by ayau

Out of curiosity, does Subaru have a history of making unreliable track cars?

They have a poor track record of making unreliable motors which blow up on the STOCK tune. Exhibit A: 08+ GRB STi...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ayau

What about Integra R's? I can pick one up for about 8k locally to toy around at the track.

for 8k, I would pick that up myself if it's in decent shape.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ayau

What about Integra R's? I can pick one up for about 8k locally to toy around at the track.

I've only owned a GSR (and did not track it), so I can't say, but I've heard the Type-Rs are fairly reliable. @Dave-ROR would know.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

for 8k, I would pick that up myself if it's in decent shape.

1 owner. 100% factory. 150k miles. No rust, some hail damage. I'm tempted.

[rice_classic]

Open letter to Honda.


Dear Honda,

Please visit the FT86 Forums. What you will see is 43 page threads comparing the 2x2 86 coupe to the 2 seat S2000 on every level of the imagination. What this tells you is that the S2000 is highly regarded and very desirable in both it's performance, value and driving experience.

Now, couple that fact with the reality that there are multiple threads where these 86 enthusiasts are going on and on about how they love the "functionality" of the coupe.. a hard top, rear seats and a quite cabin all while having the "fun to drive" aspect of a car like an S2000/Miata/Boxster. There is also an outcry for a 4 door model and even a shooting brake model. I personally would trade my FRS in today for a 4 door version of it.

Finally the 86 while being slower than the S2000 in about every aspect and only being available in a coupe still managed to out sell the S2000 by 5000 units so far in 2013 than the S2000's best year (2002), in the USA alone. Scion has also sold over 1500 FRS's in Canada in 2013 when the most S2000 ever sold in Canada in any given year was 250. As I type this, 2013 still has 2 more months left. This is proof that the S2000 wasn't the wrong car. It's proof that it was both too much car and too little car simultaneously. It was too little (2 seater roadster = small demographic) and it was too much (price tag was too high even though performance justified it). It needed to be $8-10k less even if that meant fewer ponies and mac struts.

The answer is options. We want options. Just like Malcolm Gladwell made point of in "Tipping Point" about the Spaghetti Sauce. Don't try to make one sauce appeal to more people, just make specifically different Spaghetti sauces. Sell us more types of the S2000! Create an S2000 with a more driveable power plant (K20 or K24 as an example) and offer us a coupe, a 4-door and maybe a wagon. And most of all, MOST of all.. Sell it for well under $30k. Honda, we are sports car enthusiasts but we like options, however we don't like compromise. Don't you DARE produce another CRZ as your sales prove, sports car enthusiasts don't want a car that's compromised to make tree-huggers happy and visa-versa.

Cut the costs. The transmission is already built, just ring up Aisin for the AZ6 or use the one for the GT86. Reuse the rear diff from the AP2, it works just fine. You don't even have to have double a-arms up front. We will settle for Macs up front if the price is right. Re-purpose the calipers from the Legend or the NSX, you already have OEM dual-pot floating calipers you can use. And finally, offer an optional flappy paddle auto. I know it's heresy but it sells.

You are rejoining Formula 1 in 2015 with McLaren so isn't it time you brought a proper sports car back to the masses? Toyota did. Seriously, Toyota did that before you. That fact alone should be motivation enough. Give me a reason to buy another Honda because right now I have none.

Sincerely,
Mr. rice_classic

p.s. What an S2000 Coupe could be like

[CSG Mike]

God that's ugly.

Cars of the category tend to have "bubbly" tops. See: OEM hardtop, Viper, Z4M,e tc.

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Open letter to Honda.


Dear Honda,

Please visit the FT86 Forums. What you will see is 43 page threads comparing the 2x2 86 coupe to the 2 seat S2000 on every level of the imagination. What this tells you is that the S2000 is highly regarded and very desirable in both it's performance, value and driving experience.

Now, couple that fact with the reality that there are multiple threads where these 86 enthusiasts are going on and on about how they love the "functionality" of the coupe.. a hard top, rear seats and a quite cabin all while having the "fun to drive" aspect of a car like an S2000/Miata/Boxster. There is also an outcry for a 4 door model and even a shooting brake model. I personally would trade my FRS in today for a 4 door version of it.

Finally the 86 while being slower than the S2000 in about every aspect and only being available in a coupe still managed to out sell the S2000 by 5000 units so far in 2013 than the S2000's best year (2002), in the USA alone. Scion has also sold over 1500 FRS's in Canada in 2013 when the most S2000 ever sold in Canada in any given year was 250. As I type this, 2013 still has 2 more months left. This is proof that the S2000 wasn't the wrong car. It's proof that it was both too much car and too little car simultaneously. It was too little (2 seater roadster = small demographic) and it was too much (price tag was too high even though performance justified it). It needed to be $8-10k less even if that meant fewer ponies and mac struts.

The answer is options. We want options. Just like Malcolm Gladwell made point of in "Tipping Point" about the Spaghetti Sauce. Don't try to make one sauce appeal to more people, just make specifically different Spaghetti sauces. Sell us more types of the S2000! Create an S2000 with a more driveable power plant (K20 or K24 as an example) and offer us a coupe, a 4-door and maybe a wagon. And most of all, MOST of all.. Sell it for well under $30k. Honda, we are sports car enthusiasts but we like options, however we don't like compromise. Don't you DARE produce another CRZ as your sales prove, sports car enthusiasts don't want a car that's compromised to make tree-huggers happy and visa-versa.

Cut the costs. The transmission is already built, just ring up Aisin for the AZ6 or use the one for the GT86. Reuse the rear diff from the AP2, it works just fine. You don't even have to have double a-arms up front. We will settle for Macs up front if the price is right. Re-purpose the calipers from the Legend or the NSX, you already have OEM dual-pot floating calipers you can use. And finally, offer an optional flappy paddle auto. I know it's heresy but it sells.

You are rejoining Formula 1 in 2015 with McLaren so isn't it time you brought a proper sports car back to the masses? Toyota did. Seriously, Toyota did that before you. That fact alone should be motivation enough. Give me a reason to buy another Honda because right now I have none.

Sincerely,
Mr. rice_classic

p.s. What an S2000 Coupe could be like

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[EAGLE5]

Essentially, you guys want a Honda powered FR-S, right?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Essentially, you guys want a Honda powered FR-S, right?

I would be happy with that, but I bet others would want the double-wishbone front suspension and 50/50 weight distribution. As long as we're dreaming, right?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Essentially, you guys want a Honda powered FR-S, right?

Is it that obvious?

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I would be happy with that, but I bet others would want the double-wishbone front suspension and 50/50 weight distribution. As long as we're dreaming, right?

I bet if you removed the A/C system, the balance of the FRS would be pretty damn good.

And yes, I want the DWs up front if possible but if Honda made an S2000-like-Coupe with macs up front for 25k... I'd forgive them for it.

[EAGLE5]

Honda doesn't have their mojo anymore. Toyota and Subaru do.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ayau

What about Integra R's? I can pick one up for about 8k locally to toy around at the track.

I'll buy it for 7k. Serious.

Killer track cars. Super reliable with normal maintenance, fun to drive, capable enough, cheap as hell to run, holds everything you need to go to the track plus an inflatable sofa for Team Lazy style.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I've only owned a GSR (and did not track it), so I can't say, but I've heard the Type-Rs are fairly reliable. @Dave-ROR would know.

We spun a bearing in our race car. I think it has 228 or 229k. It's been run without the oil cap (oops!) and low enough on oil for VTEC to fail and for us to "fix" it on straights with the kill switch, resetting the ecu for more VATTAAACK.. until the next turn anyways.

10-15k pure race miles.

It's a rock star IMO.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Open letter to Honda.


Dear Honda,

Please visit the FT86 Forums. What you will see is 43 page threads comparing the 2x2 86 coupe to the 2 seat S2000 on every level of the imagination. What this tells you is that the S2000 is highly regarded and very desirable in both it's performance, value and driving experience.

Now, couple that fact with the reality that there are multiple threads where these 86 enthusiasts are going on and on about how they love the "functionality" of the coupe.. a hard top, rear seats and a quite cabin all while having the "fun to drive" aspect of a car like an S2000/Miata/Boxster. There is also an outcry for a 4 door model and even a shooting brake model. I personally would trade my FRS in today for a 4 door version of it.

Finally the 86 while being slower than the S2000 in about every aspect and only being available in a coupe still managed to out sell the S2000 by 5000 units so far in 2013 than the S2000's best year (2002), in the USA alone. Scion has also sold over 1500 FRS's in Canada in 2013 when the most S2000 ever sold in Canada in any given year was 250. As I type this, 2013 still has 2 more months left. This is proof that the S2000 wasn't the wrong car. It's proof that it was both too much car and too little car simultaneously. It was too little (2 seater roadster = small demographic) and it was too much (price tag was too high even though performance justified it). It needed to be $8-10k less even if that meant fewer ponies and mac struts.

The answer is options. We want options. Just like Malcolm Gladwell made point of in "Tipping Point" about the Spaghetti Sauce. Don't try to make one sauce appeal to more people, just make specifically different Spaghetti sauces. Sell us more types of the S2000! Create an S2000 with a more driveable power plant (K20 or K24 as an example) and offer us a coupe, a 4-door and maybe a wagon. And most of all, MOST of all.. Sell it for well under $30k. Honda, we are sports car enthusiasts but we like options, however we don't like compromise. Don't you DARE produce another CRZ as your sales prove, sports car enthusiasts don't want a car that's compromised to make tree-huggers happy and visa-versa.

Cut the costs. The transmission is already built, just ring up Aisin for the AZ6 or use the one for the GT86. Reuse the rear diff from the AP2, it works just fine. You don't even have to have double a-arms up front. We will settle for Macs up front if the price is right. Re-purpose the calipers from the Legend or the NSX, you already have OEM dual-pot floating calipers you can use. And finally, offer an optional flappy paddle auto. I know it's heresy but it sells.

You are rejoining Formula 1 in 2015 with McLaren so isn't it time you brought a proper sports car back to the masses? Toyota did. Seriously, Toyota did that before you. That fact alone should be motivation enough. Give me a reason to buy another Honda because right now I have none.

Sincerely,
Mr. rice_classic

p.s. What an S2000 Coupe could be like

Needs more passion. Rewrite and let me know who you want it forwarded to. HPD? R&D? VP of PR/Marketing?