Custom trailer to carry 100 gal of E85 to track

[dp1]

Looking into having a custom trailer built to carry (with my FR-S) up to 100 gal of E85 (for up to 3 full HPDE days) and (optional) a spare set of wheels. I can easily fit spare wheels in the (gutted) car if that helps otherwise the wheels would be mounted closer to the car on the trailer to provide some protection from flying debris.

Appropriate upgrades would be made to the trailer frame, wheels, hitch, etc. The DOT-certified fuel transfer tank would be mounted solid and protected from all sides from flying debris, also vented.

E85 provides significant savings, most efficient use of my built motor, convenience benefits with fuel at hand at the track. This is the only reliable way for me to get enough E85 to the track. 100+ octane bought at the track is >4x more expensive than E85.

Full trailer for car/wheels/fuel is not an option.
I either tow fuel with my twin or buy 93/100 oct at the track.
Law says allowed to carry max 4 five-gallon cans - not enough and wouldn't carry fuel cans in the car.

NY State law:
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/ope...asoline-diesel

Please comment if you've done this or looked into this, thanks

[gramicci101]

Why not buy an existing approved 100 gallon fuel tank and bolt it to a trailer? Some of them even come with pumps, which is very helpful. You can put a wheel rack on the same trailer and be good to go. I would put the tank in front of the trailer's wheels, not behind.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...transfer-tanks

The restriction of four 5 gallon cans is referring to small portable gas cans, not tanks. The next paragraph addresses tanks, of which 100 gallons meets their requirements. Also bear in mind that E85 weighs 6.59 pounds per gallon. 100 gallons is 659 pounds of just fuel, not including weight of the tank, trailer, spare wheels, toolbox, or whatever else is being towed. I don't even think the 86 has a tow rating, so I don't know how much you'd be comfortable towing with it.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by dp1

Looking into having a custom trailer built to carry (with my FR-S) up to 100 gal of E85 (for up to 3 full HPDE days) and (optional) a spare set of wheels. I can easily fit spare wheels in the (gutted) car if that helps otherwise the wheels would be mounted closer to the car on the trailer to provide some protection from flying debris.

Appropriate upgrades would be made to the trailer frame, wheels, hitch, etc. The DOT-certified fuel transfer tank would be mounted solid and protected from all sides from flying debris, also vented.

E85 provides significant savings, most efficient use of my built motor, convenience benefits with fuel at hand at the track. This is the only reliable way for me to get enough E85 to the track. 100+ octane bought at the track is >4x more expensive than E85.

Full trailer for car/wheels/fuel is not an option.
I either tow fuel with my twin or buy 93/100 oct at the track.
Law says allowed to carry max 4 five-gallon cans - not enough and wouldn't carry fuel cans in the car.

NY State law:
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/ope...asoline-diesel

Please comment if you've done this or looked into this, thanks

Taken from your link

Employees operating a placarded vehicle shall have a CDL License with a Hazardous Materials Endorsement.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Taken from your link

Employees operating a placarded vehicle shall have a CDL License with a Hazardous Materials Endorsement.

For tanks 115 gallons or more.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

For tanks 115 gallons or more.

You are correct.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Why not buy an existing approved 100 gallon fuel tank and bolt it to a trailer? Some of them even come with pumps, which is very helpful. You can put a wheel rack on the same trailer and be good to go. I would put the tank in front of the trailer's wheels, not behind.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...transfer-tanks

The restriction of four 5 gallon cans is referring to small portable gas cans, not tanks. The next paragraph addresses tanks, of which 100 gallons meets their requirements. Also bear in mind that E85 weighs 6.59 pounds per gallon. 100 gallons is 659 pounds of just fuel, not including weight of the tank, trailer, spare wheels, toolbox, or whatever else is being towed. I don't even think the 86 has a tow rating, so I don't know how much you'd be comfortable towing with it.

Awesome, thanks:
- buying DOT certified tank, likely 110gal capacity (legal limit) and bolted/welded to trailer, with pump (forgot to mention)
- got it - tank would be in front of trailer wheels
- twins do not have tow rating, could have implications in an accident (part of the reason for the post)
- I saw a recommendation somewhere to not tow more than half of the weight of towing vehicle, expecting ~1,200 lb all in, TBD

[gramicci101]

Have you done any math to see how much fuel you would normally use in a typical track day? If you could get away with a 55 gallon tank that would cut the weight significantly.

I would do a lot of research on recommended towed weight. New York has decent hills, which make towing more difficult. Approaching the limit of the tow vehicle on flat ground means you'll be over it going up a hill. Bad times ensue.

You'll also need to know the maximum tongue weight of the hitch you'll be using. The trailer's tongue weight can be adjusted by moving the fuel tank backwards and closer to the wheels, putting more of the weight on the wheels instead of the tongue. The logical limit of this is having the tank directly over the wheels. The practical limit is having the tank slightly in front of the wheels. You really really don't want most of the weight behind the wheels for any reason, including when going up steep hills.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Have you done any math to see how much fuel you would normally use in a typical track day? If you could get away with a 55 gallon tank that would cut the weight significantly.

I would do a lot of research on recommended towed weight. New York has decent hills, which make towing more difficult. Approaching the limit of the tow vehicle on flat ground means you'll be over it going up a hill. Bad times ensue.

You'll also need to know the maximum tongue weight of the hitch you'll be using. The trailer's tongue weight can be adjusted by moving the fuel tank backwards and closer to the wheels, putting more of the weight on the wheels instead of the tongue. The logical limit of this is having the tank directly over the wheels. The practical limit is having the tank slightly in front of the wheels. You really really don't want most of the weight behind the wheels for any reason, including when going up steep hills.

That's going to be a challenge with liquid, where slosh will move weight rearward on a hill (which I assume is what you're getting at) but also on a stop. That could easily exceed tongue weight limits if it's forward enough to be safe sloshing the other direction.

I wouldn't go over 1000lbs, and would really try to stay under 900 (~1/3 car weight.) Slosh isn't just a hill thing - in fact, a partially empty tank could be very dangerous. A 55gal tank would up the safety margin significantly.

Part of me says this is just silly dangerous.

[ls1ac]

I know I will sound like an old man but I am.
Do not do it. I have seen many construction trailers with pallet tanks cause problems and accidents. High tanks are top heavy and the fluids harmonically oscillate and swing the trailer side to side. Low trailers are no better because the load shift with great force and can push the trailer and or the car around. Finally, pulling a lot of a flammable liquid is asking for major trouble. No fault of your but you get rear-ended and the tank ruptured and catches fire. Not only that but an alcohol fire is hard to see. I will bet that YOU will be found liable for any injury or deaths. Ok you could get a bladder lined foam filled tank like a fuel cell, but I will bet that it will take a lot of track days to make up that cost.
Ok I will get off the soap box.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Have you done any math to see how much fuel you would normally use in a typical track day? If you could get away with a 55 gallon tank that would cut the weight significantly.

I would do a lot of research on recommended towed weight. New York has decent hills, which make towing more difficult. Approaching the limit of the tow vehicle on flat ground means you'll be over it going up a hill. Bad times ensue.

You'll also need to know the maximum tongue weight of the hitch you'll be using. The trailer's tongue weight can be adjusted by moving the fuel tank backwards and closer to the wheels, putting more of the weight on the wheels instead of the tongue. The logical limit of this is having the tank directly over the wheels. The practical limit is having the tank slightly in front of the wheels. You really really don't want most of the weight behind the wheels for any reason, including when going up steep hills.

Really appreciate your comments

On fuel consumption:
Currently I'm on stock injectors, Jackson Racing C38 supercharger, high boost pulley (~13psi boost for ~300whp) , 93 oct. Burning ~4 gallons of 93 oct in 20 mins. I need enough fuel for three days or up to 450 minutes (90 gal). Second and third day are usually all HPDE run groups and sometimes racing, so up to 200 mins (40 gal) of 93 oct for both days.
First planned upgrade: E85 fuel and 750cc injectors with HBP (~380whp). Not sure of the percentage increase (fuel demand) when going from 93 gal to E85 on HBP.
Second planned upgrade: Stronger transmission and Jackson Racing RS pulley for ~20psi boost (? whp).
100oct (>$10/gal) that's available on tracks is just not worth the price difference.
Would be great to just run E85 on track but running 2 out of 3 days on E85 is still plenty of fun.
It looks like I have an E85 station 35mi drive from NJMP, two E85 stations within 20mi from Palmer, 68mi from WGI, 22mi from LRP, 31mi from Pocono...I could do away with a 60 gal tank and one refueling trip, or just switch to 93 oct when I run out...not bad at all.
I do have some relatively steep roads around WGI and Palmer, less at NJMP, Pocono, LRP. Would be nice to also fit the spare wheels on the trailer.

The builder will take into consideration max hitch/tongue/trailer/tire loads and load distribution.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by cjd

That's going to be a challenge with liquid, where slosh will move weight rearward on a hill (which I assume is what you're getting at) but also on a stop. That could easily exceed tongue weight limits if it's forward enough to be safe sloshing the other direction.

I wouldn't go over 1000lbs, and would really try to stay under 900 (~1/3 car weight.) Slosh isn't just a hill thing - in fact, a partially empty tank could be very dangerous. A 55gal tank would up the safety margin significantly.

Part of me says this is just silly dangerous.

Baffled tank is a must, though some slosh would remain.
Accidents can be silly dangerous, that much more so with fuel.
Considering all options...so far, we've shrunk the size of the tank to 60 gallons or less.

Thank you

[Azzudien]

If you want to do this safely, and legally in New York. Towing a tank with your car is out of the question. Your best option is buy/rent a trailer for your car and a separate 110 gal approved tank. You can get a mounted safety tank that meets all road requirements.
Rent a 1 ton pick up for the 3 track days, put the tank, spare tires etc in the pick up bed. Tow your car on the trailer.

The expense would not be that much greater than trying to build a tank on trailer

Just checked pricing also:
Uhaul is $74.90 per day for truck with car trailer and $.59 per mile.
Depending on distance to track your looking at $250-$500 for the truck and trailer each time you go to track. Buying a pallet mount tank would just be a one time charge.

[Azzudien]

And a easy transfer tank
http://http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200609592_200609592

[TrqlessWonder]

Here's the scene I see in my head:

-A HF trailer, with plenty of capacity, but a loading deck on the high side for the trailer's track width.

-700lbs of liquid in a rectangular cube container perched on top of that high loading deck. Probably taller than it is wide or long. Figure another 150-200 lbs for just the trailer frame.

-I would say the first highway off-ramp, but plenty of twisty roads around WGI, you're going to turn the wheel faster than you should, either because you forgot it's back there, dodging suicidal wildlife, getting too comfy with it back there. Doesn't matter. It doesn't need to be your fault.

-And when that happens, I can only see the top-heavy tank momentum rolling the trailer over and making your car do its impression of an alligator "death roll." Only you'll be in the teeth of the alligator, and you have a month's worth of flammable liquid 10 feet behind your head.

-You'll be fortunate if it happens on an off ramp and you only roll through a drainage culvert. Less so if you're in the twistys with lots of trees to hit.

If you're gonna do it, make sure that trailer is low, wide, and short. And make sure the tank stays low, wide and short as well. I think you'll find that by the time you're done staring down the cost barrel of lots of custom fab instead of light mods on off-the-shelf trailers, that you'll be more interested in buying fuel at the track.