Shopping between BRZ and MX-5. Can't get over torque dip.

[HKz]

...hates hearing about torque dip......mentions it over 9000 times.

torque dip is only a thing for folks who don't want to downshift and hit the redline

[NeverInTime]

Originally Posted by KAuss

Been gone for a few, but points taken in so far is that I really should reserve the dip to owners, but in my short stint of driving semi hard, what I mean to say was that there was this lack of "push" from throttle response. I mean I think I might have been a bit strong on how much of a burden it is. I think it's more proper to say that at lower speeds during street driving, the MX-5 will feel more on edge compared to the BRZ.

Other have said that the BRZ feels best 10/10. While the MX-5 can be X/10 and it always feels like 10/10. That's what the dip affects for my personal experience. If I were to get a BRZ, I would probably live with the car and not worry about it. However, with my time at the MX-5 forums, the people there have said that if I do live this way, then I'll always think in the back of my mind about the "what if..." They're right. Just like how I'd think about what if I had more practicality. Though I've never dreamt of a car with the compromised practicality for a better drive feel like a BRZ. Yet I've dreamed of driving a car like a Miata. Where you sacrifice everything for drive feel. I assume for me to do this, I'd probably have to strip the BRZ a bit to lower the weight to match.

I just got a quote back form the dealer I test drove the car at on the car I test drove. When I was there, the salesperson told me he can sell invoice at 29K for a sticker of around 31K. It was a Limited with Package 1 and PP. I told him I don't care much for package 1, and he would be willing to order. However, the wait can be quite long. He also said that without Package 1, I can expect to pay maybe 800 less. So the quote I got today from them was for $27,7xx. Thinking this might be possible to order a new 19 for $27,000 before TTS.

I think this is a good deal, but it's literally the exact same deal as I would get from the MX-5. Around 4K off MSRP. Right now, I think after listening to both forums, unless the BRZ can reach 26K to make it enticing enough (fat chance) I think the MX-5 has a better shot at being bought. For a few reasons.

- MX-5 isn't a car you can simply make up your mind one day to buy. Circumstances has to be perfect, and you must change your lifestyle to suit it. I'm in that sort of a crossroads now where I can afford the sacrifices to own a car I've dreamed about owning / driving.

- BRZ is a car where I can get that comes close in a few ways, and match the MX-5 in others that does not require a perfect circumstance to own. The BRZ is simply an easier fit to most people's lives. So there is no urgency to own this car as much as the MX-5.

- BRZ insurance might be higher than MX-5 on top of added fuel cost. These year over year expenses will add to the overall sticker of the price.

- Utility can be rented, or borrowed, while enhanced driving experiences can't. Most places won't have MX-5s for rent, let alone a stick.

- BRZ seems a lot more likely to be a money pit. One person have said in the MX-5 forum that the feeling of owning the MX-5 vs. a twin car is that you simply want to drive the MX-5. I actually agree with this. There isn't much I'd need to change on the MX-5 to enjoy it. With the twin cars, you are always looking at ways to enhance it. So the endless itch to mod the car is always going to be there. This is not a bad thing, if I was given the car, and my entire paycheck goes to modifying the car. However, as a full grown adult who has to pay for their own car, and life expenses, I will have to keep fighting the urge to mod to be responsible. In fact, I was already looking up spoiler replacements because I didn't like the stock BRZ one. This on top of the audio system upgrades I will do, which already wipes out any $ advantage from the BRZ price. The aftermarket choices for the twins is just way too strong. That in itself is a wonderful thing, but for someone who wants a move in ready house, a fixer upper is not the same.

- This last one is no knock on the forum, but I think age wise, I'm probably closer to the MX-5 group than the FT86 group. Though I think I'd still fit in being 37, I just think the average BRZ / 86 owner is quite a bit younger than myself. I see this vehicle draws a very cultured following of "heavy modding" since the passion from the younger group reminds me of my friends and I during the 90s when F&F wasn't even a thing yet. I don't think I live in that era anymore myself, and would feel out of place from a modder's mindset. This is due to the responsibilities I have as mentioned at first. Making me feel like owning a near stock BRZ will actually ostracize me from most FT86 circles. Where as owning a MX-5 nearly stock will not. MX-5 owners mod too, but you'll find a large contingent of MX-5 owners with stock vehicles that will probably not mod them much beyond simple bolt ons. I just fit in more with that crowd in the stage of my life I'm in right now.

- Last one would be that I heavily believe whatever next gen might bring for the FT86 will be a far more significant jump than say the NE MX-5. I think that would be the car that'll shoot for "best overall sports car period." Reason why I say this is because this platform has already market researched for both brands enough to give them the recipe for success. It's just a matter of them making it now.

With all that said, if a $26K price is agreed upon, that'll free me up on maybe enough mod money to wipe a lot of what I just said away. Still, if I can get just the Android Auto retrofit worked in to my current quote on the MX-5, I think that might be the heavy punch to knock this debate out.

Nothing against the BRZ, I was thoroughly surprised how much I liked the BRZ after hyping myself up so much on the MX-5 for over a decade. I "will" miss the practicality of the BRZ over a MX-5, but I think the whole time I was seeking if I rather have a more driver oriented experience, or a car that gives me 80% of that feel, and 50% more practicality. I think I have to pick the other option as I'm able to, or else I might not get a chance to later in life.

The torque 'dip' has never been an issue for me commuting in LA traffic. If there's an opening in traffic that requires me to speed up quickly, a downshift ALWAYS gets me where I want to go. But I understand if you don't want to do that, it's easier not having to do so.

The BRZ is is only a money pit if you want to throw power mods at it, but that also applies to any car. There's plenty of people who mod their MX-5's with superchargers and tunes just like with the BRZ/86. Both car scenes have a robust aftermarket community, so I think it's just your perception of the people who drive these cars honestly. In the bay area and so cal, there are a ton of young guys with their modded-out FRS/86/BRZs, so I can understand where that comes from. However, keep in mind that the most visible (and sometimes the most audible ones) aren't indicative of the community average, a lot of the guys on here are as old (if not older) than you are.

My opinion based on reading your posts is that you're putting forth a pretty strong conscious effort to justify the MX-5 despite saying you're on the fence. I would honestly just stop playing devil's advocate with yourself and go with what you've been wanting all along. The MX-5 is a great car, and if you do want to take advantage of the occasional bout of good weather in the Bay (microclimates permitting), driving around with the top down is a experience unlike any other.

[Th3rdSun]

Originally Posted by why?

If I didn't despise convertibles I would have probably bought a miata.

I've never liked the Miata,and this is one of the main reasons.

BTW,I use to live in Spring Lake NC many,many moons ago and went to Western Harnett HS. Did you happen to go there as well at some point?

[PetrolioBenzina]

The torque dip is gone in the 17 MT for all practical puposes. If you still bitch about it, you are looking for something to comlpain about.

[Victorscp]

get the brz probably better suited for a 80 mile commute, actually niether are good for a 80 mile commute go with a Civic SI

[Victorscp]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

The torque dip is gone in the 17 MT for all practical puposes. If you still bitch about it, you are looking for something to comlpain about.

this is true

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

BTW,I use to live in Spring Lake NC many,many moons ago and went to Western Harnett HS. Did you happen to go there as well at some point?

Southview Tiger here!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Victorscp

get the brz probably better suited for a 80 mile commute, actually niether are good for a 80 mile commute go with a Civic SI

Gotta ask. Why is the BRZ better suited for an 80 mile commute over a similarly equipped 86? Could see it would be mildly better if talking a Limited over a FRS in 2013 but the same features are now in both cars.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by why?

If I didn't despise convertibles I would have probably bought a miata.

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

I've never liked the Miata,and this is one of the main reasons.

I love convertibles and still wouldn't be interested in a Miata.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

The torque dip is gone in the 17 MT for all practical puposes. If you still bitch about it, you are looking for something to comlpain about.

There was a 'practical' purpose for the torque dip?

[Victorscp]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Gotta ask. Why is the BRZ better suited for an 80 mile commute over a similarly equipped 86? Could see it would be mildly better if talking a Limited over a FRS in 2013 but the same features are now in both cars.

i meant between the brz and the mx5. the brz has a little more elbow room.

i have the 2018 premium brz and i wish i had gotten the limited PP. premium doesnt have heated seats, heated mirrors, knee padding, android auto, push start(not really a big deal just knit picking lol)

huh.... after writing that and thinking about it im ok without those features lol except android auto. stock HU is garbage. i think the ones i missed out on is the PP but then again i barely drive the car 500 miles a month so a track focused car would be a waste lol

[MrDinkleman]

I used to daily an NB Miata and I used to daily my FRS. Same commute, 70miles round trip, about 90% freeways.

Commuting in a ragtop is a very noisy PITA. You get very little protection from wind noise, engine noise, and tire noise. Add to that, convertibles are a PITA because I was constantly worried about thieves or vandals damaging the top. In the summer, they're hot and in the winter they're cold. While I liked my Miata for its size, agility, RWD, and M/T, I did not like the top dropability. I bought a hardtop but even then I had to worry about it getting stolen. I guess the RF solves most of those problems but it still lacks space.

As others have said, I never notice the torque dip because I don't race others. I just like it for its size, agility, RWD, and M/T without the nuisance of a drop top.

But let me add, I agree with victorscp, for a daily commute of 80miles, I think you should forego both and just get a commuter hatchback. Boring, I know but I always felt/feel terrible that I wasted a Miata and an FRS on a 90% freeway, 70mile daily commute.

In between the Miata and FRS I had a M/T Yaris hatch. I loved it. Slow and ill-handling, but VERY roomy (seated 4 adults comfortably), good gas mileage (36MPG average over 140k trouble-free miles), entertaining enough (thanks to M/T) and GREAT cupholders (its best feature). I'd still have it if it hadn't been totaled in a rear-ender...
.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Victorscp

i meant between the brz and the mx5. the brz has a little more elbow room.

i have the 2018 premium brz and i wish i had gotten the limited PP. premium doesnt have heated seats, heated mirrors, knee padding, android auto, push start(not really a big deal just knit picking lol)

huh.... after writing that and thinking about it im ok without those features lol except android auto. stock HU is garbage. i think the ones i missed out on is the PP but then again i barely drive the car 500 miles a month so a track focused car would be a waste lol

OK I have no idea how I read that as between the 86 and BRZ!

[Victorscp]

Originally Posted by MrDinkleman

I used to daily an NB Miata and I used to daily my FRS. Same commute, 70miles round trip, about 90% freeways.

Commuting in a ragtop is a very noisy PITA. You get very little protection from wind noise, engine noise, and tire noise. Add to that, convertibles are a PITA because I was constantly worried about thieves or vandals damaging the top. In the summer, they're hot and in the winter they're cold. While I liked my Miata for its size, agility, RWD, and M/T, I did not like the top dropability. I bought a hardtop but even then I had to worry about it getting stolen.

As others have said, I never notice the torque dip because I don't race others. I just like it for its size, agility, RWD, and M/T without the nuisance of a drop top.

But let me add, I agree with victorscp, for a daily commute of 80miles, I think you should forego both and just get a commuter hatchback. Boring, I know but I always felt/feel terrible that I wasted a Miata and an FRS on a 90% freeway, 70mile daily commute.

In between the Miata and FRS I had a M/T Yaris hatch. I loved it. Slow and ill-handling, but VERY roomy (seated 4 adults comfortably), good gas mileage (36MPG average over 140k trouble-free miles), entertaining enough (thanks to M/T) and GREAT cupholders (its best feature). I'd still have it if it hadn't been totaled in a rear-ender...
.

like i said earlier civic si or in your case civic sport