valve spring issue?

[why?]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The only thing I find fundamentally different is wrist pin installation. Otherwise it's another four cylinder.

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Name another four cylinder that requires the removal of the entire engine for things like spark plugs, valve springs or the like. Never mind the entire thing about once you take it apart odds are it will never ever be the same. Normal 4 cylinder engines you can actually take it apart and not wreck it.

Originally Posted by humfrz

And why is that? - I


humfrz

Originally Posted by ermax

The only thing that complicates this engine really is the abundant use of FIPG. It’s actually really easy to work on other than that. You don’t even need beer. I suspect they aren’t popular because simple tasks like coil packs, valve adjustment, plugs etc aren’t practical without pulling the engine. The only real advantage they have is low CG so it’s only really logical to put them in a sports car and there just aren’t many sports cars. Manufacturers want an engine that is easy to maintenance that they can use in all their cars not just sports cars.

Yea, simple things like valve springs change require removing the entire engine. Never mind spark plugs and everything else. That's absurd. No tech should ever be able to mess up an engine. The entire subaru community is sort of nuts because of the unique properties of the boxer engine that make maintenance, repair, and modifications a total and complete pain in the ass.

And let's not talk about how much the FA is so obviously a cheap compromise. I mean the oiling so called system is a total joke. Obviously built on a shoestring budget, I wonder if they at least redid the FA24 so that it isn't this stupid.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by why?

Name another four cylinder that requires the removal of the entire engine for things like spark plugs, valve springs or the like. Never mind the entire thing about once you take it apart odds are it will never ever be the same. Normal 4 cylinder engines you can actually take it apart and not wreck it.





Yea, simple things like valve springs change require removing the entire engine. Never mind spark plugs and everything else. That's absurd. No tech should ever be able to mess up an engine. The entire subaru community is sort of nuts because of the unique properties of the boxer engine that make maintenance, repair, and modifications a total and complete pain in the ass.

And let's not talk about how much the FA is so obviously a cheap compromise. I mean the oiling so called system is a total joke. Obviously built on a shoestring budget, I wonder if they at least redid the FA24 so that it isn't this stupid.

I changed my spark plugs without removing the engine. I did the valve cover gaskets on my brothers Impreza(EJ25) without removing the engine, I am sure I could figure out how to swap the springs without doing so. Probably just have to undo the engine mounts and loosen the trans mount and jack/hoist it(that's not technically removing the engine). The reason you remove the engine is it is easier(if you have the equipment to do so), and quite simple on this car. The engine harness has a plug above the bell housing which is quite a nice feature, the bell housing is very long and makes separating the engine from the transmission pretty simple. Still, it doesn't make it a whole different animal as you described. A motorcycle with the trans as part of the engine case is a whole different animal. A rotary is a whole different animal. This is just a layout change. Fundamentally it is just another multi cylinder 4 stroke with more than one cylinder bank. People have been building boxers for years without having any issues. Where this "it is never the same once you tear it apart" talk came from is BS. Don't take internet hearsay as gospel, an engine is as good as it is assembled. People used to say you couldn't rebuild rotories and they were never the same after you took them apart too.

I am thinking you are mistaking "looks different" with "more complicated".

Edit: Not trying to be a **** or anything. I am just pointing things out from my perspective.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am thinking you are mistaking "looks different" with "more complicated".

Edit: Not trying to be a **** or anything. I am just pointing things out from my perspective.

I’m with you. I’ve been to exactly 1 engine school in 15 years. They’re all the same. Pistons, heads, glue and some chains. Wrap your head around the differences and go at it.

We have 4 cylinders, i5, v6, v8, v8 with the exhaust (and turbos) in the valley, v12, straight 6 48v with no accessories, gas engines, diesels engines, hybrids, on and on. I might touch 5 of them on one day. They’re all the same in the end.

[humfrz]

About @why? 's comment about taking this engine apart, reminds me of a back-in-the-day story.

I dropped a 35mm SLR film camera in a muddy, flooded rice field in California.

So, I took it apart to dry it out and clean it up. Well, I couldn't get it back together, so I put all the pieces in a cardboard box and took it into a camera shop (yes, they used to have camera shops) and ask the fellow how much he would charge clean it up and put it back together.

He told me it would be cheaper for me to buy a new camera -


humfrz

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by humfrz

About @why? 's comment about taking this engine apart, reminds me of a back-in-the-day story.

I dropped a 35mm SLR film camera in a muddy, flooded rice field in California.

So, I took it apart to dry it out and clean it up. Well, I couldn't get it back together, so I put all the pieces in a cardboard box and took it into a camera shop (yes, they used to have camera shops) and ask the fellow how much he would charge clean it up and put it back together.

He told me it would be cheaper for me to buy a new camera -


humfrz

I deal with that in my current field of work. I had a customer try to rewire the cord for a scale indicator. They plugged it in backward and cooked all the boards. It was cheaper to buy a new one at 1800 then for me to fix it

I remember when we first started working on the KTM 950 Adventure enduro bike. Enduro was putting it lightly, they were built around the Paris-Dakar. It was easier to unbolt the motor and drop it down slightly to get to the valves on the rear cylinder. They were shim over bucket. One of the guys that worked in the stall next to me was watching me and shaking his head wondering why I didn't do it with that motor in place. He dropped a shim down the timing cavity not long after , motor had to come out, case had to come apart

[ermax]

Originally Posted by why?

Name another four cylinder that requires the removal of the entire engine for things like spark plugs, valve springs or the like. Never mind the entire thing about once you take it apart odds are it will never ever be the same. Normal 4 cylinder engines you can actually take it apart and not wreck it.











Yea, simple things like valve springs change require removing the entire engine. Never mind spark plugs and everything else. That's absurd. No tech should ever be able to mess up an engine. The entire subaru community is sort of nuts because of the unique properties of the boxer engine that make maintenance, repair, and modifications a total and complete pain in the ass.



And let's not talk about how much the FA is so obviously a cheap compromise. I mean the oiling so called system is a total joke. Obviously built on a shoestring budget, I wonder if they at least redid the FA24 so that it isn't this stupid.

But fundamentally it’s not really “complicated”. I think that is all anyone was getting at. I agree the Subaru community is a bit delusional when it comes to the boxer.

[why?]

Originally Posted by ermax

But fundamentally it’s not really “complicated”. I think that is all anyone was getting at. I agree the Subaru community is a bit delusional when it comes to the boxer.

Yes, fundamentally there is no big deal. The problem is people need to take their time, double check everything, and make sure they are doing it correctly. While that should be fundamental, unfortunately these things are not common enough when it comes to dealerships.

[Rican_D]

Everyone affected, keep posting issues. We are getting more attention.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/27207/...erous-problems

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[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by why?

Name another four cylinder that requires the removal of the entire engine for things like spark plugs, valve springs or the like. .

That isn't the engine design, it's the engine bay design. All this could be done in the engine bay if it was designed to take it into account.

[RallySport]

Do we know what they changed in the process documentation?

[maslin]

Originally Posted by RallySport

Do we know what they changed in the process documentation?

Top Secret, not published anywhere. Except government websites easily found with google.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...72&docType=RCL

[hoangjm]

Hey guys! what about the Toyota 86 2017 model?? It has been 2 years since I bought the car and it starts to have problem with the valve also.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by hoangjm

Hey guys! what about the Toyota 86 2017 model?? It has been 2 years since I bought the car and it starts to have problem with the valve also.

The 2017s weren't affected by the valve spring recall.

How do you figure your car has a valve problem?


humfrz

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Veloist

Early 2018's were known to have valvetrain issues, so I wonder if this potential recall is related.

First notable issue I recall:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125672

Originally Posted by hoangjm

Hey guys! what about the Toyota 86 2017 model?? It has been 2 years since I bought the car and it starts to have problem with the valve also.

Different issue. See above.