MotorTrend's Head-2-Head MX-5 MiataRF vs. Toyota86

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by why?

A few years ago everything was a BRZ, now it is probably Toyota's turn.

It's Toyota's turn because the Toyota 86 is "new" to the US market. If MT used a BRZ instead, people would whine that they were comparing the "old" car when they should have used the "new" Toyota.

[TylerLieberman]

I think the RF will end up winning the head to head. The brake advantage alone (not sure why they didn't get the BRZ with the PP) will play a part.

Also, there's still a torque dip and not really any more power compared to the previous gen FRS. Those were two complaints they had in the last head 2 head against the mx5. The mx5 RF will is a bit heavier, so I imagine some of their performance measurements will be a bit closer, but I still think the MX5 will take the overall win.

The 86 has been improved, but only in really small ways in various areas. It's nothing dramatic compared to the zenki model. Now, if the 86 ran an even shorter final drive and had absolutely no torque dip and an 8k redline (and had the brembos) I think it'd have the upper hand in the comparison.

We'll see though.

[darthpnoy1984]

You have no trunk space in the Miata, I never understand the endless debate between two different animals one a roadster and the other is a hardtop 2+2 car.


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[humfrz]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

No, that thing just looked like a chick car. It wasn't particularly stupid-looking. I figured men who drove them were secure enough in their masculinity that they didn't mind driving a feminine car to get the driving experience.

This new one is particularly stupid-looking. The lines are awkward, and the "face" on the front looks like a stoner saying, "Dude, what?"

And Mazda knows they screwed it up. If you look at the main Miata page on the Mazda website, there's not a single pic of the hideous front end. You have to dig into the gallery to see what the front end actually looks like. And even then, they have all the thumbnails of the front end cropped so you can't see it clearly. They know it's ugly, so they hide it.

Again, driving an ugly car is okay if the performance is there. But the comment was made that the MT reviewer would likely judge it on aesthetics as well. Aesthetically there's no contest.

Well, all I know for sure is that our NC Miata carried us for 88,000 fun filled miles, covering most of the US and parts of Western Canada.

We could pack enough stuff in it for two weeks of touring at a time.

It was dependable, economical and the top down driving experience was priceless, for us two 60+ year old folks.

The ONLY reason I traded it for my FR-S was that mrs humfrz was tiring of the "top down adventure". So, I went with the FR-S because it was a coupe (quieter), 2+2 (more room for traveling stuff), but still was economical and fun to drive.

As far as being viewed as driving a "feminine car" ...... if anyone thought that ..... that was there problem ...... not mine. (hey, big balls, just tuck that honking truck or your overpowered mustang in behind me and try to keep up with this girly car, as I go through the curves on this mountain ......


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

.......................They should have used a PP BRZ.

Am the only one that when they see "PP" they think of the first year that Chevrolet came out with their OHV 265 cu in V-8 ......and an option was a "PP", which stood for "Power Pack", which included dual exhaust and a 4 barrel carburetor ........????????

Oh ...... it must be my bedtime ...... stuck in the 50's .....again ......



humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

You have no trunk space in the Miata, I never understand the endless debate between two different animals one a roadster and the other is a hardtop 2+2 car.


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Well now, that's just not true. I'll agree the trunk space is limited in the Miata.

However, mrs humfrz and I were able to pack enough stuff to take several 2 week driving trips (with one wash stop). You just have to learn to pack light and tight.

Yes, one is a roadster and one is a coupe ...... but, to me they drove/drive much the same.




humfrz

[NLSP]

Originally Posted by humfrz

...hey, big balls, just tuck that honking truck or your overpowered mustang in behind me and try to keep up with this girly car, as I go through the curves on this mountain ......

humfrz

Sorry to go off topic, but where is this, humfrz?!

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by NLSP

Sorry to go off topic, but where is this, humfrz?!

That would be a run up a 14,000 ft. high mountain called Pikes Peak.

Back then, very few guard rails and when the road was part gravel ..... one had to know the limits of car .......


humfrz

[bcj]

Originally Posted by humfrz

That would be a run up a 14,000 ft. high mountain called Pikes Peak.

humfrz

Oh! The PP vacation option!

[WorldRallyB]

I'm not going to regurgitate everything said, but i'll include some highlights.

[about the 86]
"Can you explain to me why the front of this car looks like a jack-o-lantern in December"? -Jason Cammisa

"This sounds like two garbage trucks arm wrestling in a dumpster" -Jonny Lieberman:
"Garbage trucks are too big, more like two drain disposals, one gargoyling on marbles the other on silverware" -Jason Cammisa

[about both cars]
"I loves these things, they're like fighter planes, not the heavy bombers" -Randy Pobst

"Picking a winner was tough, we preferred whatever car we got out of last.. until we drove them to work. On normal roads at normal speeds its the miata that turns the drudgery into comedy and puts the 86 in second place" -Jason Cammisa

Jonny and Jason comparison comments:
-86 Rides better than the miata
-86 Quieter than the miata
-maita more fun at 10/10
-miata lots of body roll (duh), lots of movement with lots of control
-86 More roomy cabin, likes the seat and steering wheel adjustment/telescoping
-86 "sit the way you want to sit"
-86 They're not a fan of the boxer exhaust and rumble, evident by my quote above
-86 drives every bit as good as the miata
Randy's comments:
-86 less body roll, likes the feeling of control that goes with it
-86 pulls better at higher rpm
-86 better sense of control
-miata behaves better on bumps, 86 gets more upset with "snap oversteer"
-miata felt planted over a bumpy section on the track
-miata you can change direction better

Streets of Willow hot lap times:

86: 1:30.26
RF: 1:30.39

Jonny tries to beat Randy's times in a Hellcat (yes you just read that) and clocks a 1:40.79

Miata RF WINS Head 2 Head

My thoughts on the video:
I really enjoyed it, very entertaining and for as much crap these guys give our cars in other videos they had a lot of nice things to say. The review did an excellent job capturing my enjoyment i have driving my brz. Based off this video, what should you do? Buy a BRZ PP!

[guybo]

If I had $36k to spend on a car, it wouldn't be a Miata. This comparison is stupid, there's $10,000 difference between the cars. Why don't they just throw in a Cayman to the mix too?

If a mag is doing anything other than comparing like-for-like, they are selling something, not reviewing anything. MotoTrend is automotive "journalism" at its worst. Pick up the print magazine and check out the ads- the people paying the bills. Then look at the "review" of that product a few pages later. It happens all the time, they cannot be unbiased or they'll bite the hand that feeds them.

So for $10k less, there was only 1/10's between them AND the 86 has room for passengers in the back? Look outside the lines, that's a clear win to me.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by guybo

If I had $36k to spend on a car, it wouldn't be a Miata. This comparison is stupid, there's $10,000 difference between the cars. Why don't they just throw in a Cayman to the mix too?

If a mag is doing anything other than comparing like-for-like, they are selling something, not reviewing anything. MotoTrend is automotive "journalism" at its worst. Pick up the print magazine and check out the ads- the people paying the bills. Then look at the "review" of that product a few pages later. It happens all the time, they cannot be unbiased or they'll bite the hand that feeds them.

So for $10k less, there was only 1/10's between them AND the 86 has room for passengers in the back? Look outside the lines, that's a clear win to me.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. Without watching the video, this sounds like it echoes the last H2H they did between these two. And MT isn't the first publication to compare the two and come to this conclusion.

As someone who worked at an ad agency for a couple years and also at a major magazine publication in the ad sales department, I can tell you that what you're talking about does happen but it's typically so blatant that even your grandma would notice it; and it typically happens in much lower profile magazines.

Could MT be biased? I'd bet the higher ups might be. But when it comes to the actual writers and test drivers, I can assure you, they're gonna do their best to get their real opinions through even if they are encouraged to swing the piece one way or another.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by WorldRallyB

I'm not going to regurgitate everything said, but i'll include some highlights.

[about the 86]
"Can you explain to me why the front of this car looks like a jack-o-lantern in December"? -Jason Cammisa

"This sounds like two garbage trucks arm wrestling in a dumpster" -Jonny Lieberman:
"Garbage trucks are too big, more like two drain disposals, one gargoyling on marbles the other on silverware" -Jason Cammisa

[about both cars]
"I loves these things, they're like fighter planes, not the heavy bombers" -Randy Pobst

"Picking a winner was tough, we preferred whatever car we got out of last.. until we drove them to work. On normal roads at normal speeds its the miata that turns the drudgery into comedy and puts the 86 in second place" -Jason Cammisa

Jonny and Jason comparison comments:
-86 Rides better than the miata
-86 Quieter than the miata
-maita more fun at 10/10
-miata lots of body roll (duh), lots of movement with lots of control
-86 More roomy cabin, likes the seat and steering wheel adjustment/telescoping
-86 "sit the way you want to sit"
-86 They're not a fan of the boxer exhaust and rumble, evident by my quote above
-86 drives every bit as good as the miata
Randy's comments:
-86 less body roll, likes the feeling of control that goes with it
-86 pulls better at higher rpm
-86 better sense of control
-miata behaves better on bumps, 86 gets more upset with "snap oversteer"
-miata felt planted over a bumpy section on the track
-miata you can change direction better

Streets of Willow hot lap times:

86: 1:30.26
RF: 1:30.39

Jonny tries to beat Randy's times in a Hellcat (yes you just read that) and clocks a 1:40.79

Miata RF WINS Head 2 Head

My thoughts on the video:
I really enjoyed it, very entertaining and for as much crap these guys give our cars in other videos they had a lot of nice things to say. The review did an excellent job capturing my enjoyment i have driving my brz. Based off this video, what should you do? Buy a BRZ PP!

Agreed. I suspect the more equal comparison with the BRZ PP would have made the difference.

[Lantana frs]

They're basically saying that it hard to go wrong with either one.