For those who have doubt in the Vortech kit please read.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by 2forme

Actually, I saw the ECU reporting the O2 System readiness as a steady "Incomplete" even after 700 miles. This would fail emissions testing.

Well that's not good. Not sure how they expect to get CARB approval if that's the case. @Brian@Vortech any response to that?

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Power is awesome. One question, though: What happens if you need to go on a long trip, maybe to somewhere that doesn't have e85 available? You'll have to swap the pulley to be compatible with regular gas, no? Seems like you're pretty much married to E85 at that point (unless swapping the pulley is super easy, which i have no idea of).

Just flash a pumpgas tune, leave the pulley.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Coheed

Please elaborate. This car doesn't say "ready", even with factory cat in place?

There is a set of readyness checks that the ECU goes through every time the ECU is reset. It will either report "Complete" or "Incomplete" if the system is present on the car ("Unavailable" if not present). Normally, the checks are complete by 100 miles. On the car I saw, the O2 system check never hits the "Complete" state. So there might be some ECU trickery on the O2 system to prevent rich/lean CEL's. This occurred on both Visconti's and Perrin's SC tune. If you were to hook up an emissions scanner, it would give you an incomplete and the shop would tell you to keep driving until it completes.

I'm not sure if this is inherent on all FI tunes. Anyone with a turbo or other car care to try the readyness scan on their cars?

[AZFA20]

It really is hard to describe the feeling of the centrifugal supercharger on this particular car. I am a die-hard turbo guy but having tracked the Vortech kit on this platform, it really does fit the vehicles character very well. I have to admit though I STILL cannot make a decision on forced induction for this car. I have been ready to buy for months now It has never been so difficult for me to decide on forced induction EVER haha. What appeals to me more than anything about Vortech is the smooth delivery of boost and power. This combined with a high compression engine and the type of fuel delivery system we have seems to fit well for longevity. On the other hand, there are turbo setups pushing limits well beyond expectations with very little issue so its again a toss up and I can totally relate to those looking for that torque. There are ways to dramatically increase powerband levels with the Vortech via wastegate that we have yet to really see so once again who knows what peoples opinions will be on the Vortech after seeing that. It's also important and not nearly talked about enough that PSI is only one small part of the equation and really means nothing when it all comes down to it. What really matters is the compressor wheels design and compressor housing dimensions. Toss in a turbo and it becomes even more complicated with turbine design and turbine housing dimensions. When people ask me how much boost I am running it always kind of bothers me because who cares what boost you are running if you know nothing about the specs of the turbo or in this case the supercharger....... Just some food for thought for those who get hung up on PSI vs dyno charts.

Regardless these E85 numbers are pretty awesome and essentially 100HP more than anyone else on here with the Vortech so there is something to be said there for sure. Congrats on the numbers!

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by RedAlert

Good flywheel numbers. Now I know what E85 is going to look like if/when I go to that level. According to my math, that's 310 at the wheels. It takes a smaller pulley and E85 to put down 310 at the wheels. What size is the smaller pulley you are using? What mixture of E85 are you using, 100%, 50% gas/50% E85? Do you have a separate E85 map? How is the clutch holding up? Thanks for sharing this.

This is not a flywheel dyno. The numbers he is showing is at the wheels/hub.

365 WHP with E85 12.5 psi = 400+ crank HP

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by 2forme

There is a set of readyness checks that the ECU goes through every time the ECU is reset. It will either report "Complete" or "Incomplete" if the system is present on the car ("Unavailable" if not present). Normally, the checks are complete by 100 miles. On the car I saw, the O2 system check never hits the "Complete" state. So there might be some ECU trickery on the O2 system to prevent rich/lean CEL's. This occurred on both Visconti's and Perrin's SC tune. If you were to hook up an emissions scanner, it would give you an incomplete and the shop would tell you to keep driving until it completes.

I'm not sure if this is inherent on all FI tunes. Anyone with a turbo or other car care to try the readyness scan on their cars?

I know what the readiness monitors are. That doesn't explain how you know the readiness of his car though. I'd like to hear from the owners of the cars themselves on this issue. There is no way this kit will get CARB exemption if the readiness monitors won't say ready.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This is not a flywheel dyno. The numbers he is showing is at the wheels/hub.

365 WHP with E85 12.5 psi = 400+ crank HP

This,

base on 20% loss, this is roughly 440 crank ho

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by deucethemoose

I'm sure I am not the only one with this stance on the matter, but my issue with the supercharger option is the lack of torque, and the stupid amount of boost you have to run on them to make them comparable to most of the turbo applications out there already.

12psi on the stock motor isn't the greatest idea, and overall HP isn't what I'm looking for - it is the TORQUE that I want. Turbo kits like AVO's 5psi offering on standard 91 octane (most of us have 92 around) and zero fuel system mods puts out 230whp/197tq - which is more torque and close to your HP figure after you converted to e85, new injectors, new fuel pump, and a smaller pulley. FA20Club's kit nets even more on 5psi. 286whp/210tq.


The bottom line is there are more cost effective, scalable, and more efficient options out there. Supercharger on this motor doesn't appear to be worth the money.

Seriously? 3 different Dyno's bud. You can't compare numbers from 3 different cars using 3 different dyno's to state an argument. Dyno Dynamics are called Heart Breaker dyno's for a reason. They are the only ones I use to get my numbers with. Mustang Dyno is low reading also.

This car would break 400whp easy on a dynojet, and probably 430whp on a Dynopack.

[deucethemoose]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Seriously? 3 different Dyno's bud. You can't compare numbers from 3 different cars using 3 different dyno's to state an argument. Dyno Dynamics are called Heart Breaker dyno's for a reason. They are the only ones I use to get my numbers with. Mustang Dyno is low reading also.

This car would break 400whp easy on a dynojet, and probably 430whp on a Dynopack.

Cool Story Bro.


Again, I am not making this into a turbo-is-better-than-supercharger argument.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Seriously? 3 different Dyno's bud. You can't compare numbers from 3 different cars using 3 different dyno's to state an argument. Dyno Dynamics are called Heart Breaker dyno's for a reason. They are the only ones I use to get my numbers with. Mustang Dyno is low reading also.

This car would break 400whp easy on a dynojet, and probably 430whp on a Dynopack.

Don't forget Gem used 3 different dynos at 3 different shops for his results, too....

You're forgetting the whole dyno calibration aspect of things. Dyno dynamics can be switched to read like DynoJet's or Dynapacks with a couple of clicks. I am NOT saying that's what happened here, but merely stating that not all Dyno Dynamics have to be heart breaker dynos. Considering his results, I'd peg him somewhere in between a Mustang and Dyno Jet for numbers if they are corrected.

Also, if he's hitting 12.5 psi at that altitude, he's not running any of the typical pulleys that Vortech offers. As far as I understand, they offer 8.5, 10, and 12 (measured at sea level). It's a good thing he's running E85. I'd be scared as hell to run 12.5 psi on 93 with this motor.

Oh and I love the people saying that < 100 ftlbs below 3000 RPM causes them to "snap their head back".... really? lol. Maybe in first gear...

[post_break]

Originally Posted by congiiee

Isn't it just upgraded fuel pump/injectors and small pulley?

I want everything, super charger cost, pulley cost, pump, injectors, exhaust, tune. I want to see what he paid out the door to get the power.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by post_break

I want everything, super charger cost, pulley cost, pump, injectors, exhaust, tune. I want to see what he paid out the door to get the power.

Retail cost, not one-time testing parts/vendor helping/super sale deals. I think the average Joe doesn't have access to all that and should know what the final retail result is going to be.

[Sonolin]

HOLY $***!!!!

That's it, I'm going with Vortech. Screw the house & other plans. LOL.

I can't believe it! I was hoping for 280-300+ whp with e85 but 345 whp???? Wow. I know for 100% certain this kit will satisfy my inner speed demon and best of all I do believe this kit is the best fit for this car's character.

I wish I had the money now or I'd buy it!

EDIT: Please keep us updated on the reliability of this setup OP! I'd seriously like to know.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Well that's not good. Not sure how they expect to get CARB approval if that's the case. @Brian@Vortech any response to that?

That has everything to do with the tune. If the car does not have our tune, I can't comment.

Our tune should have no such issues. Most tuners specialize in a certain vehicle type, brand, or software tuning method. Our in house tuner is one of the top tuners in the country (if not the world), and is likely the only tuner in the country that has been granted CARB Executive Order Numbers on force induction applications that include vehicles produced by Ford, Chevy, GMC, Chrysler, Dodge, Nissan, Infiniti, Honda, Acura, Jeep, Cadillac, Hummer, Lincoln, Mercury, Pontiac, etc., and done so with multiple tuning formats that include Diablosport, SCT, Superchips, Split Second, Hondata, Unichip, and soon to be Ecutek. He works closely with the emissions lab on every step of the process, and has seen every one of our CARB legal systems in the last 12+ years though to completion.