Crawford catch can's anyone interested?

[Dezoris]

No one seemed to answer why you would want to drain all that moisture, potentially burned oil, blow by gas back into the crank case and not just drain it? Namely if you care about performance. You certainly don't want it in the intake tract why would you want it back in the engine?

Frankly, Crawford has provided no technical details, virtually no transparency of the how or why his AOS is better than using a catch can, or open system.

Which screams snake oil.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

No one seemed to answer why you would want to drain all that moisture, potentially burned oil, blow by gas back into the crank case and not just drain it? Namely if you care about performance. You certainly don't want it in the intake tract why would you want it back in the engine?

Frankly, Crawford has provided no technical details, virtually no transparency of the how or why his AOS is better than using a catch can, or open system.

Which screams snake oil.

Huh?

This isn't a new product.

It's been a very well proven product on the wrx/STIs.

I personally have one on my sti and my wife's wrx.

If you don't understand why not having to drain a catch can is better well the. Idk what to tell you

John

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Huh?

This isn't a new product.

It's been a very well proven product on the wrx/STIs.

I personally have one on my sti and my wife's wrx.

If you don't understand why not having to drain a catch can is better well the. Idk what to tell you

John

No offense John you still did not answer the question.
Catch cans and AOS are nothing fancy but when you look at the contents of a catch, blow by gas/oil and the amount, why is it better to plumb it back into the engine than to drain it?

Do you really want that back in the engine? If you don't want it back into the intake/manifold why would you want to route it back into the engine?

I'd just like to see more factual/actual data than people saying it just works thats all Crawford's site says.

Where is the UOA analysis of a tracked car with the AOS, where is the engine tear down showing motors with and without it?

John if you just sold your tunes and said: "Plug it in, it works it's proven."
Then not provide any additional technical information, are we just supposed to be like oh yeah sure?

[mhigham]

I've had catch cans on previous cars. They never drained back into the engine or crankcase. That's the whole point, right? I don't want combustion tainted oil in my crankcase or my intake.

And $319.00! Yikes.

[Ranatsu]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

No offense John you still did not answer the question.
Catch cans and AOS are nothing fancy but when you look at the contents of a catch, blow by gas/oil and the amount, why is it better to plumb it back into the engine than to drain it?

Do you really want that back in the engine? If you don't want it back into the intake/manifold why would you want to route it back into the engine?

I'd just like to see more factual/actual data than people saying it just works thats all Crawford's site says.

Where is the UOA analysis of a tracked car with the AOS, where is the engine tear down showing motors with and without it?

John if you just sold your tunes and said: "Plug it in, it works it's proven."
Then not provide any additional technical information, are we just supposed to be like oh yeah sure?

You don't want oil recirculating through the intake because it lowers the octane rating of the fuel.

That is one reason that I know of

[RazBRZ]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

It seems like it.

I did not see anything until after the fact the forum admin had deleted posts and whatnot.

He made it seem like Crawford was trying something on the sly, you know, like circumventing the rules. If they weren't, that is BS...and these vendor rules are getting out of hand, that I can agree with.

From what I understand. Crawford got into it with the MOD over answering questions about the AOS without registering as a vendor. Even though he was not attempting to promote or sell the product just answer questions.

The MOD also will not let you put a link to ********.com (brz_club). apparently, we are not allowed to share information or work together with other sites or people

[whataboutbob]

I bought one anyway from a registered vendor of this site. Doesn't the blow by come from the engine? If it does, I can't see why it is an issue to route it back in...

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by whataboutbob

I bought one anyway from a registered vendor of this site. Doesn't the blow by come from the engine? If it does, I can't see why it is an issue to route it back in...

First off I am not pretending to be an expert just looking for facts:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/blowby.html

The entire concept of the AOS is to filter the air and oil and drain it back into the crank case. A quality catch can will actual collect the oil from the blow by gas and feed the rest of the gas back into the intake.

So the issue I am raising with Crawfords AOS is that it is collecting blow by gasses and oil that is contaminated from blow by and putting it back into the crank case which technically according to conventional wisdom is bad for your clean oil. How exactly is this a good practice? It is the most basic question not once answered on any forum I have asked about it. Which is why until I got an answer would I never dump the money into this product.

[Ranatsu]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

First off I am not pretending to be an expert just looking for facts:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/blowby.html

The entire concept of the AOS is to filter the air and oil and drain it back into the crank case. A quality catch can will actual collect the oil from the blow by gas and feed the rest of the gas back into the intake.

So the issue I am raising with Crawfords AOS is that it is collecting blow by gasses and oil that is contaminated from blow by and putting it back into the crank case which technically according to conventional wisdom is bad for your clean oil. How exactly is this a good practice? It is the most basic question not once answered on any forum I have asked about it. Which is why until I got an answer would I never dump the money into this product.

Not sure if you read this, it doesn't directly answer your question but it may answer other questions.

10. How does it fit the '02 with cruise control in the way? - On the 02 or most of the cars which don’t have the throttle by wire, the top mount AOS lives in the same location as the cruse control unit. Our current TMIC AOS for the 04 to 07 will fit on the 02 but you will need to remove the cruse control unit. This is not ideal for some owners but currently that is the answer.

9. Are there any negative effects of not running the PCV?- Here is a good read on a generic PCV system, they have a decent explanation about question #9. http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm Running the top line from the AOS to the vacuum source within the intake has the same effect on evacuating the blow as the PCV.

8. What is the effect of the Air/Oil Separator on ignition timing? – Our AOS has no immediate effect on ignition timing unless your motor is detonating from the blow by oil passing through the intake system. Once the AOS is installed and the blow by oil is no longer passing through the intake, your ECU will automatically advance the ignition timing because of the cleaner / more controlled burn in the combustion chamber. That said, the ECU will only advance the ignition to the parameters within the settings of the MAP.

7. Is the Air/Oil Separator suitable for a stock/daily driver?- Yes... You can pull the intercooler off your new car with only 500 miles on it and find oil inside of it. The purpose of the AOS is to remove this oil from the intake system to lessen the possibility of detonation which is the main cause of broken ring lands on the stock pistons. As you increase your HP, the amount of blow by passing through your breather system increases as well. This scenario also increases the need for our AOS.

6. Why go with a Crawford Air/Oil Separator, rather than a catch can? - With our AOS your oil will stay in the crankcase instead of outside the motor in a catch can. This will avoid the unpleasant surprise of finding out you do not have enough oil in your motor to properly supply the bearings. Because our motors are horizontally opposed, they are susceptible to pushing oil out the valve covers unlike an inline or V shaped motor. Our AOS pulls a vacuum on the crankcase creating a more efficient motor which equals more power from the same setup. A catch can cannot do this. Our customers say their motors run smoother after removing their catch can and installing our AOS.

A catch can needs to be emptied of its hazardous waste on a regular basis. Our AOS needs ZERO maintenance. A catch can emits the unpleasant smell of the crankcase fumes. Our AOS doesn't smell and is emissions friendly. Most catch can systems end up leaking or spewing oil in/on your engine bay while our AOS keeps everything clean and tidy.

5. Why is the Crawford Air/Oil Separator better than others on the market? - This is a tough question because it requires us to possibly shed negative light on our competitor's product, which is not a way we prefer to do business. Instead the answer will show how strongly we believe in our product.

Crawfords AOS was not originally designed for resale, but rather to take care of an issue we had with our race car on the race track. The final version of the original AOS was well over a year old before we started to sell the units to the general public. That decision was spurred on by our daily drivers which were getting oil in the intercoolers causing detonation. Crawfords is the only AOS with a money back guarantee, which shows how strongly we believe in this product. Crawfords AOS has the largest internal volume so it will separate more oil than any of the others on the market. Crawfords AOS also has the highest resale value which can be seen with a simple search on the boards.

4.How do you keep the Air/Oil Separator from freezing in cold climates? This is a great question and is currently relevant. Being located in Sunny Southern California, we did not know this would be an issue for some of our customers…Now we know. We have just finished our first test unit that will be heading to the frozen north for testing. It incorporates a water line from the engine to keep it at the same temperature as the engine. This should do the job and we will keep you posted on its progress. We have a production run of these AOS units currently in the system which should be ready for shipping in approximately two weeks.

3. What causes the yellow gunk? This is a mixture of oil and water. Usually when the water in the engine heats up it vaporizes and makes its way out the breather system. If it stays in vapor form it will make its way out the top of the AOS and into the intake. We have found from our cold weather customers that condensation is occurring inside our AOS as it is colder than the engine. This condensation is mixing with the oil in the AOS causing the yellow gunk. To fix this issue we have made a cold weather version that incorporates a heater inside the AOS to keep the AOS at the same temperature as the engine. With them being the same temperature, condensation will not occur leaving the water vapor to flow out the top of the AOS and into the intake system.

2. Why is it so expensive? Crawfords AOS kit costs more than most because it's a complete bolt on kit with all the engineering and testing out of the way. Also:
It has a money-back guarantee
It has the best resale value
Proudly made in America by Crawford
Largest internal "separating" volume on the market
Re-circulates the precious oil back into the crankcase so the motor will not seize from a lack of oil.
Pulls a vacuum on the crankcase creating better ring seal / power
Avoids detonation which leads to broken ring lands.
Now functions in sub zero weather
Aesthetically pleasing
Zero maintenance

1.What is inside the Air/Oil Separator? If you were to cut open a Crawford AOS, you would find that there are two different chambers within the AOS with the first chamber being a swirl pot. The function of a swirl pot is to swirl the incoming oil and air mixture. Due to centrifugal force against the inside wall, it removes the air from the oil so the air can be extracted through the top of the AOS. And due to gravity, the remaining oil will run down the walls of the swirl pot and collect in the bottom of the AOS. At this point the separated oil sitting in the bottom of the AOS is returned to the engine via a baffled chamber in the center of the block.

As the separated air moves up inside the AOS, it must enter a second chamber within the swirl pot before it can vent out the top of the AOS. The function of the secondary chamber is to remove any residual oil that might have made its way up the swirl pot. The secondary chamber also has a drain in the bottom to return the separated oil back to the engine. Unlike the other units on the market, the Crawford air oil separator has a hefty internal volume of .75 liters used to separate the air from the oil. This large internal volume is a must for separating the air from the oil coming out of the crankcase breathers on our horizontally opposed turbocharged engines.

Also found inside Crawford’s version 2 AOS is an internal heater. This heater equalizes the temperature inside the AOS and the engine to avoid condensation occurring within our AOS. This up grade makes sure the vaporized water leaving the motor makes its way through the AOS in vapor form instead of condensing back into a liquid inside the AOS. This is a must in cold weather and a bonus for any climate. No other AOS on the market employs this technology.

Crawford’s AOS is the largest “true” AOS as well as the only one with an internal heater on the market. This one unit has been designed to handle a stock to a fully built 750HP race motor.

Thanks for asking this group of questions!

Team Crawford

This is from this post on IWSTI

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...-answered.html

[xwd]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

First off I am not pretending to be an expert just looking for facts:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/blowby.html

The entire concept of the AOS is to filter the air and oil and drain it back into the crank case. A quality catch can will actual collect the oil from the blow by gas and feed the rest of the gas back into the intake.

So the issue I am raising with Crawfords AOS is that it is collecting blow by gasses and oil that is contaminated from blow by and putting it back into the crank case which technically according to conventional wisdom is bad for your clean oil. How exactly is this a good practice? It is the most basic question not once answered on any forum I have asked about it. Which is why until I got an answer would I never dump the money into this product.

Lots of stock engines use air/oil separators which drain back into the engine. Industrial machines, Porsche/BMW use them pretty extensively, aircraft, etc. Generally the blow-by isn't full of too many contaminants, it's just oil vapor so once you remove the air what's left over isn't necessarily very contaminated unless there are other problems with the engine.

I agree it would be good for someone to do an oil analysis of what's in a catch can but lots of times water also condenses in those things which creates the sludge.