Moral Standing...

[Zoomie]

Everyone is excited about these new cars and so am I! The situation is very dynamic as dealerships try to sell, individuals try to buy all while the market is seething with activity on what may be hype, limited numbers or the next true sports car! Something I am seeing is very disturbing though. I see on this forum a number of people who bash dealerships because of apparently underhanded moves. I then see posts of people (including myself) who bash the dealers for not being upright and forthcoming in their dealings. I am not a dealer, salesman or connected to the car business other than as purchaser and lover of everything automotive. Actually I'm in the military, and have been for the preceeding 28+ years. I type all this to say If you make a deposit on a car, strike a deal on a price and expect the dealer to honor it then YOU should be willing to do the same thing! "X" dealer got one in a few days earlier, or I changed my mind on the color, tranny or whatever is not a valid answer, nor is making multiple deposits at different sales outlets. Dealerships expect YOU to keep your word too! As a minimum tell your dealer so they can make arrangements also. This is their business and livelyhood.
DO WHAT YOU SAY! YOU THEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPECT THE SAME IN RETURN. Don't be an assclown...

[Smitty_89]

I totally agree with everything you said but I think one of the reasons that people put down multiple deposits is to cover their ass because they expect the dealers to screw them when the car arrives so they want to have a back up and be able to go to another dealer. This allows you to choose the dealer who treats you best, which is what competition is all about. And the consumer wins when there is competition in the market.

And in a big purchase as a car, I don't blame people for doing that. Once again, I agree with your overall point, there are certain people who can be assclowns but some of us are just being smart and trying to get the best deal.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by Smitty_89

I totally agree with everything you said but I think one of the reasons that people put down multiple deposits is to cover their ass because they expect the dealers to screw them when the car arrives so they want to have a back up and be able to go to another dealer. This allows you to choose the dealer who treats you best, which is what competition is all about. And the consumer wins when there is competition in the market.

And in a big purchase as a car, I don't blame people for doing that. Once again, I agree with your overall point, there are certain people who can be assclowns but some of us are just being smart and trying to get the best deal.

This is spot on. saying that those who put down multiple deposits are somehow being unfair to the dealers is ridiculous. The real way to solve this problem, is to have the dealers write a contract stipulating they cannot mark up the car over the agreed price, and your problem would be solved and multiple deposits would be reduced.

[Zoomie]

I agree Smitty. I want to have a back-up plan myself. Mine is to arm myself with info so that when a dealer starts talking "fees" I can counter with the doc fee in SC or NC is $XX bucks. Or, limited availability! Actually they aren't that limited because XYZ has one on the showroom floor that will go for retail. I made clear that when I put money down and shook the GM's hand that I intend to do what I say, but I also expect him to do what was agreed by him and his subordinates. There is never a reason to do the wrong thing, only excuses. I never intended this to sound "high and mighty" or "better than thou" but we have gotten very spoiled as consumers thinking retailers owe us something. They do! But we owe them upright business practices also.

I think my flame suit is zipped, can you check that nomex strap at the back and verify no skin is exposed...

[Alias]

Putting down a deposit is used to show that you are a serious buyer who is willing to buy the vehicle if reasonable terms that you can both agree to are met.

Dealerships are not asked to provide any sign of intent to sell the vehicle at a reasonable price. If a dealership put down on paper that it was under the full intention/obligation to sell the vehicle requested for whatever terms have been previously negotiated THEN it would be wrong to go around to multiple dealers and get these contracts of intent. Just the same as it would be wrong for a dealership to accept multiple deposits for the same car.

It's not considered wrong for a dealership to form waiting lists for interested buyers and subsequently should not be considered wrong for buyers to form lists of multiple dealers they may purchase the car from. Just because the dealers request a down deposit to get on your waiting list of dealers you may buy from doesn't make it morally wrong to keep your options open, it still puts them in a more favorable position than it puts the customer when the dealer sticks them on a waiting list because intent to honor the agreement (in the form of a requested monetary deposit) has been shown by the consumer.

Almost any dealership I've called around to that has sold out of their preorders has a waiting list, a lot of them have rather long waiting lists, these are people that they have to sell the car to in-case the preorder backs out; they're not going to be left sitting with a car that they can't sell, they've already planned (their waitlist) for some of the consumers who have preordered to renege on their order and have set about preparing for this situation, putting them in a position of greater power. Why should the consumer not have the ability to have a backup plan or "plan B" in case the dealership reneges? It's only equaling things out.

[Zoomie]

Zgrinch,
I agree with you except that people are placing orders (I want this color and this tranny)with this deposit(I got MY VON or my VIN). Porsche for instance,still has a program called special wishes. They used to advertise it by showing a womans nails and then showing a 911 in that color. Not everyone may like that color if you back out! If you just place a deposit on a car and then change your mind, no biggie! if on the other hand you order a car, that is a much different story. Your choice "might" not be something a dealer would have on the ground at his dealership had you not ordered it...

[Driver]

bravo zoomie i agree.

[Zoomie]

Alias,
My dealership's GM signed a purchase order as did I. I see ordering a car as totally different that placing my name on a wait list. i watched my GM's sales manager input my "order" and print out a confirmation(generating a VON). I didn't just throw my name on a waitlist. Others may have done what you suggest though...

[Mr. Mcoupe]

Flaking Out works both ways right? Fact of life?

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Smitty_89

I totally agree with everything you said but I think one of the reasons that people put down multiple deposits is to cover their ass because they expect the dealers to screw them when the car arrives so they want to have a back up and be able to go to another dealer. This allows you to choose the dealer who treats you best, which is what competition is all about. And the consumer wins when there is competition in the market.

And in a big purchase as a car, I don't blame people for doing that. Once again, I agree with your overall point, there are certain people who can be assclowns but some of us are just being smart and trying to get the best deal.

What Zoomie wrote is not ridiculous.

He stated that if you and the dealer agree on a price (such as a contract specifying MSRP) when ordering a car, you should keep to your word and not back out just because another dealer got the same car sooner.

Ordering multiple cars at different dealerships (in case one dealership gets it before another) is less akin to waiting lists and more akin to a dealer agreeing to sell the same car to multiple people (which I think we all agree would be outrageously underhanded).

All IMO, of course.

Oh, and IBTL

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Zgrinch,
I agree with you except that people are placing orders (I want this color and this tranny)with this deposit(I got MY VON or my VIN). Porsche for instance,still has a program called special wishes. They used to advertise it by showing a womans nails and then showing a 911 in that color. Not everyone may like that color if you back out! If you just place a deposit on a car and then change your mind, no biggie! if on the other hand you order a car, that is a much different story. Your choice "might" not be something a dealer would have on the ground at his dealership had you not ordered it...

The difference is that the BRZ and FR-S don't really have "options". You choose 1 of 6 or 7 colors, 1 of 2 transmissions, 1 of 3 trims. It isn't like when my wife ordered her MINI and you could choose from 13 body colors, 3 roof colors, 2 engines, 2 transmissions, moonroof, driving lights, bonnet stripes, LSD, heated seats, steering wheel controls, fog lights, leather, cloth, leatherette, 5 different dash trims, 3 different interior colors, etc. etc. You could make some really odd, but pricey combinations on the MINI that would be hard to sell. For all practical purposes, the BRZ and FR-S are ordered in spec models and there are some minor things you can add at the port or dealer.

[Zoomie]

Quentin,
You might want to look at the sales brochure (BRZ). Packages (limited, premium), tranny and port installed items are options dude. Things that people are distressed over like tinting, paint treatment mud flaps etc are also options (not cost effective ones in my opinion, but none the less options).

[raphymartinez]

I still can't believe someone would put a deposit on a car without having a purchase order that includes a total price with fees and all.
I'm a sales manager at a Toyota dealership and never have or will take such deposit. That's just an easy way for sleazy dealerships to take advantage of someone because of their over excitement on a new car.
No total price = no deposit

[BRZer86]

The bigger problem from the consumers end is the dealership can't tell you what color or packaged cars are coming their way. If the dealership knew the colors, trannys, and packages coming their way then the only excuse the consumer would have is financial reasons.