Ace 4-2-1 Header

[Valentino]

Thank you all for your answers.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That depends. What else do you have done to your engine, and how experienced are you?

The 4-1 makes a bit more power all the way at the top. The 4-2-1 makes more power everywhere else.

Engine is stock. maybe I'll add a drop in filter or a CAI (still didn't deiced).
You can say I'm above the average track day driver.

Forgot to add CUSCO engine mount.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Valentino

Thank you all for your answers.



Engine is stock. maybe I'll add a drop in filter or a CAI (still didn't deiced).
You can say I'm above the average track day driver.

Forgot to add CUSCO engine mount.

Unless its a dedicated race car, I'd recommend the 4-2-1 Type A.

http://counterspacegarage.com/ace-mu...-frs-gt86.html

[Valentino]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unless its a dedicated race car, I'd recommend the 4-2-1 Type A.

http://counterspacegarage.com/ace-mu...-frs-gt86.html

I'm thinking of striping my car and making it a dedicated race car.
But why the 4-2-1 Type A? and what would you recommand for a dedicated race car? and why?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Valentino

I'm thinking of striping my car and making it a dedicated race car.
But why the 4-2-1 Type A? and what would you recommand for a dedicated race car? and why?

the 4-1 will make more power at the very top, but if you're ever caught even one gear lower, it loses a TON of power down low.

It's like having a Honda engine without the non-vtec cam.

[Valentino]

Do you have a dynosheet shows the difference between them?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Valentino

Do you have a dynosheet shows the difference between them?

Nope, but Ace might.

[churchx]

Ace needs to have proper ecu tuning specific to each of these two header types for proper comparison. Differences with stock ecu or with unfit tunes might make that difference way bigger or way smaller then it may be relatively to with individual ecu tunes. If with later you were first, imho you may get results for testing Type C first aswell, if you ever decide on that ..
Actually imho it's worth doing, because if difference will be negligible of just 1-2whp, then it makes sense of getting 200$ cheaper Type C, which in turn may result in much more headers sold, no?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by churchx

Ace needs to have proper ecu tuning specific to each of these two header types for proper comparison. Differences with stock ecu or with unfit tunes might make that difference way bigger or way smaller then it may be relatively to with individual ecu tunes. If with later you were first, imho you may get results for testing Type C first aswell, if you ever decide on that ..
Actually imho it's worth doing, because if difference will be negligible of just 1-2whp, then it makes sense of getting 200$ cheaper Type C, which in turn may result in much more headers sold, no?

And how many other header manufacturers have done that level of testing?

I believe CSG's testing of this header has been more extensive than the dyno testing performed by any header manufacturer on this board.

[churchx]

Mike: problem being not time/work spent on it (hats off to Ace for doing that, i never wanted to belittle his efforts), but how useful results were for actual customer purchase decision / product evaluation / comparison between alternatives. Those runs simply didn't show true potential of header making it look worse then other alternatives, that had full tune with full gains, thus seemingly besting it. Good thing that specific tune such as done by you guys (which most probably poeple will run header with) shown true capabilities.
As for why imho worth to do testing of Type C with similar proper tune too - if Ace does tests for it with similar not well-fit OTS tune, in just the same way it will be hard to truly evaluate/compare true differences between Type A & C for customers. For example if Type A had +5whp, and difference with same non-fit OTS tune of Type C will be 1whp less - will that mean that it will produce just 1-2whp less with full tune too and it's negligible enough to give up for $200 less and RHD/LHD universality sake? Or that it will mean "-20% of Type A performance" with full tune (most will run it with) too, and hence if possible by all means Type A should be chosen despite higher cost.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by churchx

Mike: problem being not time/work spent on it (hats off to Ace for doing that, i never wanted to belittle his efforts), but how useful results were for actual customer purchase decision / product evaluation / comparison between alternatives. Those runs simply didn't show true potential of header making it look worse then other alternatives, that had full tune with full gains, thus seemingly besting it. Good thing that specific tune such as done by you guys (which most probably poeple will run header with) shown true capabilities.
As for why imho worth to do testing of Type C with similar proper tune too - if Ace does tests for it with similar not well-fit OTS tune, in just the same way it will be hard to truly evaluate/compare true differences between Type A & C for customers. For example if Type A had +5whp, and difference with same non-fit OTS tune of Type C will be 1whp less - will that mean that it will produce just 1-2whp less with full tune too and it's negligible enough to give up for $200 less and RHD/LHD universality sake? Or that it will mean "-20% of Type A performance" with full tune (most will run it with) too, and hence if possible by all means Type A should be chosen despite higher cost.

We'll be testing the Type C when it's production ready.

Relax.

These headers are being built on established engineering principals and are being flowbenched. It's not some random guy randomly putting pipes together, and calling it a header.

At some point, you have to call the evidence posted "good enough" and decide for yourself which header is right for you. If you want maximum power, order a Type A now.

[Valentino]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

And how many other header manufacturers have done that level of testing?

I believe CSG's testing of this header has been more extensive than the dyno testing performed by any header manufacturer on this board.

There is one other company which I know (on this forum) also did extensive dyno testing. This is why ACE headers and the other brand are my only two choices.

So (if possible) before I decide which headers I should get. I want a dynosheet comparison ,layover between the 4-2-1 TYPE A ,and the 4-1 (hp,and torque)
@AceHeader-MT

[Calum]

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

estimated self conversion for 4-2-1

Originally Posted by AceHeader-MT

Header is $1100
OP (required) is $300



I'll still ask the question about ft/lbs. Not a bad thing to have for reference anyway



Sure thing.

Top curve= 4-into-1 with ACE muffler (not for sale yet)
Mid curve= 4-into-1 with muffler delete
Low curve= 4-into-1 with stock muffler
All pulls with Stock ECU and K&N air filter

The parts, photos and pricing will be listed on the website this week. We just started production today and will post photos of jigs and progress throughout.

Originally Posted by Valentino

There is one other company which I know (on this forum) also did extensive dyno testing. This is why ACE headers and the other brand are my only two choices.

So (if possible) before I decide which headers I should get. I want a dynosheet comparison ,layover between the 4-2-1 TYPE A ,and the 4-1 (hp,and torque)
@AceHeader-MT

something something use the search blah blah blah

[Valentino]

Originally Posted by Calum

something something use the search blah blah blah

I've seen this before (I read the other ACE header post).

Probably you didn't understand what I want. But none of these dyno tests answers my question. They are all for the 4-2-1 but with different fuels and with different brand headers.

If what I'm asking is too much I'm sorry. ACE company can just ignore my post.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Valentino

I've seen this before (I read the other ACE header post).

Probably you didn't understand what I want. But none of these dyno tests answers my question. They are all for the 4-2-1 but with different fuels and with different brand headers.

If what I'm asking is too much I'm sorry. ACE company can just ignore my post.

One picture shows the 4-1 header in different configurations, the other is the 4-2-1 and a baseline. Both posts are from this thread. Other then the being overlaid its exactly what you asked for.