Contacted "Scion Customer Experience" regarding DI Seal Issue

[AyJay]

Just thought I'd share...

My original email via the "Scion Customer Experience" website:

As an owner, I'm highly disappointed in my 2013 Scion FR-S right now. The increasing number of reports of Direct Injection (DI) seal failures among track (HPDE) enthusiasts, and Scion/Toyota/Subaru's lack of a solution (or even acknowledgement), has me deeply troubled. I am an HPDE enthusiast myself and thought that the FR-S would be the perfect daily driver and occasional HPDE participant to supplement my track ready, reliable as the sun Honda S2000. As it stands right now, my FR-S recieves no track time at all since I don't want to suffer the same DI seal problems that a large number of HPDE going owners are reporting. Unfortunately, my FR-S has been turned into the worlds most impractical Yaris without the good MPGs and the lower price point. Highly disappointing. I understand that Scion has been good about warranty coverage for this issue but for a great many of us that only represents a bandaid to what looks to be a design flaw in the engine.
I wanted very much to love this car like I love my S2000 but, unfortunately, I really regret buying into this car.

[AyJay]

Scion's Response:

Hello Adam,

Thank you for contacting Scion.

We apologize that you are not satisfied your 2013 FR-S.

We appreciate your feedback about the FR-S as it is through communications such as yours that we become aware of our customers' expectations and reactions.

If you are having concerns with your FR-S, we would recommend contacting your local Scion dealer. For contact information to your local dealer, please click on the link below:

http://www.scion.com/find_dealer.html#


Brett K.
Scion Customer Experience

^ Response is typical corporate BS.

Effectively translated:

Thank you for contacting us.

We are sorry (not really) you aren't satisfied. To pacify you, we'll tell you our communication may or may not make a damn bit of difference. We won't actually make any effort whatsoever to address the concerns you spoke of.

If you would like to continue this discussion please contact someone else who we know couldn't care less (dealership) so they can give you the run around.

Thanks,
Brett K.

[CSG Mike]

Gotta love the canned response.

At the end of the day, they only care about making money.

[kALMIGHTY]

Originally Posted by AyJay

As an owner, I'm highly disappointed in my 2013 Scion FR-S right now. The increasing number of reports of Direct Injection (DI) seal failures among track (HPDE) enthusiasts, and Scion/Toyota/Subaru's lack of a solution (or even acknowledgement), has me deeply troubled. I am an HPDE enthusiast myself and thought that the FR-S would be the perfect daily driver and occasional HPDE participant to supplement my track ready, reliable as the sun Honda S2000. As it stands right now, my FR-S recieves no track time at all since I don't want to suffer the same DI seal problems that a large number of HPDE going owners are reporting. Unfortunately, my FR-S has been turned into the worlds most impractical Yaris without the good MPGs and the lower price point. Highly disappointing.
I understand that Scion has been good about warranty coverage for this issue but for a great many of us that only represents a bandaid to what looks to be a design flaw in the engine.
I wanted very much to love this car like I love my S2000 but, unfortunately, I really regret buying into this car.
[FONT=Times New Roman]

Not hating on you or anything, but it kind of sounds like you have highly unreal expectations from the car, especially the first year of a brand new car with a brand new engine. You should have realized that we technically are "beta testers" for what's probably going to be an amazing platform down the road.
Just because a "large" number of HPDE twins have DI issues, doesn't mean yours will.
You can choose to drive yours like a Prius if you really want to, but ultimately that's your decision and not Scion's fault. You yourself stated that Scion has been good about warranty coverage for this issue, so what exactly are you worried about? If it breaks, they'll fix it. If it doesn't break, then great.
You're complaining about something that hasn't even affected your car yet, so I'm not surprised the Scion replied with a very generic response to your complaint.
Go out and enjoy the car like you wanted to when you first bought the car. Deal with problems when you get to them, instead of whining about and being afraid of the POSSIBILITY of things going wrong in the future.
There's a possibility of everything going wrong in the world all at once, but we don't have to live in fear of it. Enjoy your car for what it is now, not for what it might be in the future.

[7thgear]

question...

the dealership where i bought my car is owned and operated by an auto enthusiast, he has many cars in his garage and actually takes his FRS quite reguarly to the track.

if i was to write him a request/proposal/plea to look into this matter, what sort of language should i use and what points exactly should i tell him about?

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by kALMIGHTY

You should have realized that we technically are "beta testers" for what's probably going to be an amazing platform down the road.
Just because a "large" number of HPDE twins have DI issues, doesn't mean yours will.
You can choose to drive yours like a Prius if you really want to, but ultimately that's your decision and not Scion's fault. You yourself stated that Scion has been good about warranty coverage for this issue, so what exactly are you worried about? If it breaks, they'll fix it. If it doesn't break, then great.
You're complaining about something that hasn't even affected your car yet, so I'm not surprised the Scion replied with a very generic response to your complaint.
Go out and enjoy the car like you wanted to when you first bought the car. Deal with problems when you get to them, instead of whining about and being afraid of the POSSIBILITY of things going wrong in the future.
There's a possibility of everything going wrong in the world all at once, but we don't have to live in fear of it. Enjoy your car for what it is now, not for what it might be in the future.

It's sad when we have to make excuses for manufacturers to justify our purchase decisions. I didn't sign up to be a beta tester. If you are ok with paying full price to be a beta tester then it's truly a sad state we live in as consumers. Clearly corporate brainwashing works in the market place.

I'm complaining about a design flaw that has affected enough people for the track community to take notice. The fact that they are warrantying the work is great for 3yrs/36k but after that the design flaw is all yours. It's comical to me that you are ok with that ... but to each their own.

It's tough for me to "go out and enjoy" when I'm not sure if the next expensive track day will be cut short by this design flaw and I'll have to start doing tedious maintenance work because of it (after 36k).

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by kALMIGHTY

Not hating on you or anything, but it kind of sounds like you have highly unreal expectations from the car, especially the first year of a brand new car with a brand new engine. You should have realized that we technically are "beta testers" for what's probably going to be an amazing platform down the road.

haha what?

Beta testing is what happens before you release a product.. thats why they call it BETA TESTING. They arn't building a spaceship here. Our expectations as consumers is to receive a fully operation product.

Do i get to complain that the sun-visors are made from cardboard? No. This was part of the deal.

Do i get to complain about general road noise? No. This was part of the deal.

But when you have an engine that could self-destruct when you operate it under normal conditions, then every single one of us has a right to complain. Period.

I don't want to gamble every time i go to the track.. will this be the day what i wont be gentle with my throttle? I don't want to think about that.

Scion needs to openly acknolwedge it and do whatever fix is necessary.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by AyJay

It's sad when we have to make excuses for manufacturers to justify our purchase decisions. I didn't sign up to be a beta tester.

Heh. Well... we're all beta testers, aren't we?

I knew I was a beta tester in this brand new design.

But, I am with you all the way, here.

I expected likely inconvenience.

I also expected that as we beta testers uncovered flaws, those flaws would be addressed and corrected.

Currently, I am observing a "redline" of 6000 rpm in 2nd-6th gears. And I still don't know if this will protect me from DI seal failure and subsequent engine catastrophe.

This reminds me of the stonewalling the Porsche company did about the IMS failures in their engines. Porsche recently faced a class-action lawsuit. The judge ruled against Porsche.

So far, Subaru/Toyota appear to be following in Porsche's footsteps.

I did not expect a responsible and reliable manufacturer to stonewall us, failing to provide a suitable solution.

I, too, am disappointed.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by kALMIGHTY

it kind of sounds like you have highly unreal expectations from the car

Not the car ... the MANUFACTURER!

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Currently, I am observing a "redline" of 6000 rpm in 2nd-6th gears. And I still don't know if this will protect me from DI seal failure and subsequent engine catastrophe.

then you should redline your car at 5200...

the problem as i understand it is rapid throttle on/off above 5200 rpm.. but how rapid.. and if it's 100% all the time... the other thread is cryptic enough, i wish someone made a sticky

(i myself haven't noticed it, i have an early production but i mostly do autocross and my shifts are generally clean and throttle modulation is gentle)

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

haha what?

Beta testing is what happens before you release a product.. thats why they call it BETA TESTING. They arn't building a spaceship here. Our expectations as consumers is to receive a fully operation product.

Do i get to complain that the sun-visors are made from cardboard? No. This was part of the deal.

Do i get to complain about general road noise? No. This was part of the deal.

But when you have an engine that could self-destruct when you operate it under normal conditions, then every single one of us has a right to complain. Period.

I don't want to gamble every time i go to the track.. will this be the day what i wont be gentle with my throttle? I don't want to think about that.

Scion needs to openly acknolwedge it and do whatever fix is necessary.

Relax man, you're living in an age where the average teenager is impressed with a cellphone, Bluray player or TV that lasts a whole 3 years!

[Books]

What were you expecting their response to be?

[shellslinger]

I thought this problem with the DI seals were solved with new tune (ZA1JA01G)

[ayau]

Unfortunately, only a small percentage of owners will take their cars to the track and put it through that kind of abuse. I don't really see any incentives for them to "fix" this issue since this doesn't affect 99% of the owners.

Personally, I'm pretty close to selling the BRZ and buying a cheap ITR as my weekend toy. The only thing holding me back is losing 8-10k in the first year of ownership.