Subaru trying to deny my warranty please help!

[Jordan Silveira]

Moderators: I don't mean to SPAM this topic I am just not sure exactly where to post it and feel having it in numerous areas of the forums will help get the most feedback. Thank you!


Hey there FT86 family,

Admittedly, I have been holding back from writing this because I feel like an idiot for even finding myself in this predicament and more so, because I undoubtedly expect some people to doubt my story that I know as truth. Not to mention, the internet is full of those who take joy in watching others pitfalls. Anyways, here it goes. I am looking for any help, support, advice, or knowledge that can help me get out of this situation as intact as possible. I have been in major stress since Monday and figure it’s worth taking a shot seeing what type of responses this post will garner.


I bought a 2016 BRZ Series.Hyperblue for 2,000 off MSRP from Subaru of Glendale with 193 miles on it. I was told the car would still maintain all factory and manufacturer warranties (which still seems to be the case). However, I was sold the car as used. I was told the car was an unwind vehicle and while being asked to keep this information quiet, the car was purchased by a salesman in order to hit the monthly sales quota and then unwound. Unfortunately, upon purchasing the car something with this story seemed to be shifty as from what I know now, that all may be true but there also seems to be an owner who purchased the car in late January. Anyways, I dismissed it because the car ran perfectly and rest assured, I had manufacturer warranties if anything was seriously wrong. With that said, I had driven the car with absolutely no issues for three months until I took the car to be tinted and upon picking up my car, the car failed to start. I tried everything from forum searching, to attempting to jump start the car, and to no avail, nothing worked. The vehicle had full electricity from alarms, stereo, lights, etc. However, the engine would not turn over (crank). The steering wheel was locked and I was being shown a blinking immobilizer light on my cluster. In conjunction with this, when I would press on the clutch it would recognize my key fob was in range (per the light on the cluster). Finally, I gave up and had the car towed to Puente Hills Subaru {PHS} (Subaru Roadside wouldn’t assist so Geico was my only option and they towed the car to the nearest dealer).


From this point, I initially received a call from a service advisor at PHS stating that my ECU was producing readings (ignition count, etc.) with all values indicating “0”. He then told me he had not seen anything like this and that despite the unusual circumstance he would keep “prodding”. However, before he let me go he asked if I had ever “tuned or flashed” my car. I told him no because to my knowledge the vehicle never had been. I know at the very least I for sure did nothing of the sort. The next day I received a call from the Service Manager at PHS asking me for a full detailed history of the car and I gladly obliged telling him everything from the time I bought it up until it arrived on their lot. At that point, he told me he noticed the tint stickers saying the windows should not be rolled down and I confirmed the car head been tinted the day it stopped working. He then told me either I or the tint shop was being dishonest (insinuating I was lying) and that according to him my car had been “flashed or tuned” with a “2015 STi profile using a COBB Accessport”. He then proceeded to tell me that was the reason my car would not start because the ECU was locked up with a profile it didn’t recognize. After staunchly denying his allegations, he told me he had already spoken with a Subaru of America technician to have my car flagged as modified for this alleged “flash or tune”. He then told me I had two options, to find this accessport that my car was married to, or pay for a new ECU as my warranty would be denied for this repair and more than likely any other future engine or powertrain problems should they arise.


I then went to the place where my car was tinted and sat with the owner for upwards of an hour and a half watching surveillance footage of my car from the time I dropped it off to the moment the car was towed away. During this time, I could find no time where foul play could be insinuated. Moreover, I called the service manager who wrongly accused me and told him what I was currently doing and that I would like some proof of his alleged claims. He told me that he could do so as soon as I decided to pay for the service or towed the car off of their lot. He then told me he had “9 minutes to get to a meeting across the street” the moment myself or the owner of the tint shop wanted to speak with him. All he did was reaffirm his allegations that my car was tuned with the aforementioned “2015 STi profile using the COBB accessport”. He also claimed that this would have had to been done to the car right before it’s mechanical/electrical failure based on his ECU readings printout of all zero’s for the values listed. Later in the day, the service manager called me to tell me that he was mistaken in his allegations regarding the “2015 STi profile/COBB Accessport” but that he remained steadfast in his claims that my car was “tuned or flashed” but that upon further research with a Subaru of America technician my car was producing these zero readings with the profile of a 2015 BRZ and that the calibration ID’s and numbers were not matching the VIN of the vehicle. He then told me he found two previous owners on the history of the car prior to me (an owner who originally purchased the car in late January, and “one of those Glendale names” (WOW prejudice much?!?!). I told him I had no idea and never did anything he was claiming. He told me frankly it didn’t matter what I was claiming because he had proof saying otherwise and regardless of whether or not I did it, the “tune/flash” whenever it occurred would still allow denial of my warranty repair and a “flagging” of my vehicle for future servicing needs. I then was asked by the same guy to deliver my second key as he was going to try and make the car operate/run with the current profile system of a 2015 BRZ. I then obliged and gave him the key and during my time there he showed me a printout of my vehicle and readings with values of “0” while also showing me what it would otherwise look like by comparing my readings with other customer’s readings of the day. He even went so far to tell me that he had seen so many people come in pleading for mercy and bailout and that Subaru of America would even sometimes provide up to 75% of the repair costs if they would just come clean on the alleged modifications. I told him I had nothing to come clean about because I honestly did nothing to the vehicle. He then told me he would be rich if he had a dime for every time someone lied to his face about modifying their vehicle. He then told me he would try his best to get the car working on its current situation but couldn’t guarantee me anything because of the alleged “tune/flash”.


I then opened up a case with Subaru of America detailing the aforementioned events for the gross lack of professionalism, wrongful persecution despite my staunch denial of his allegations, amongst many other issues. I was then told they would look into the matter and within the next day I received a call from the Service Manager asking if his conversation with a Subaru of America regarding my displeasure of the case was accurate and I told him yes. He then told me to come pick my car up and tow it away indicating he was refusing service to my car from here on out. I called SoA and they told me they gave absolutely no directive for such measures to refuse service but that all authorized Subaru Retailers were independently owned and could do as they wished regarding service but that they would note this on my case and further investigate. The story goes on and on but rather than elaborate on an already longer series of events than most will even read through, as it currently stands my car is still in PHS’s service lot and starting next week SoA will be sending a warranty/district rep to inspect and investigate all the findings and determine if whether or not my car will be covered by warranty for this repair and going forward if indeed the Service Manager’s allegations are true.


In short, I am wondering if any of you who have stuck around long enough to read this would have any idea if any of his allegations are even possible, if you have any advice to save me from what seems to be the inevitable consequences for something I did not do, or any other further information/comments.


Thank you so much,


Jordan

[Wayno]

Some electrics work but it won't crank, sounds like a flat battery to me.

[steve99]

Hmmm

Their a lot of misinformation and BS here

AFAIK

Cobb do not tune BRZ platform nor does the access port support the brz ecu

The BRZ ecu is different from both the WRX and WRX STI ecu

If you power off the ECU completly (remove battery connection or flat battery) then all learned parameters are lost, and all the ecu counters for DTC codes and timers are set to zero this is normal and will not stop car from starting.

It likely the tinting place removed battery to stop windows jumping up/down when the opened /closed doors.

The dealer should be talking about the ECU checksum or CVN if they reckon its been tuned. And comparing it with a stock tune of same calid.

All the BRZ or 86 tunes for a year model are all the same their is no STI or TRD "tune" for these cars.

As wayno said it likely just a flat battery or some imobiliser issue.

does the key symbol on dash go green when key fob is in car and start button pushed.

Someone is bending the truth here.

In the unlikely event it isa actually tuned if you bought it from a reputable dealer they should sort the problem.

[Jordan Silveira]

Originally Posted by steve99

Hmmm

Their a lot of misinformation and BS here

AFAIK

Cobb do not tune BRZ platform nor does the access port support the brz ecu

The BRZ ecu is different from both the WRX and WRX STI ecu

If you power off the ECU completly (remove battery connection or flat battery) then all learned parameters are lost, and all the ecu counters for DTC codes and timers are set to zero this is normal and will not stop car from starting.

It likely the tinting place removed battery to stop windows jumping up/down when the opened /closed doors.

The dealer should be talking about the ECU checksum or CVN if they reckon its been tuned. And comparing it with a stock tune of same calid.

All the BRZ or 86 tunes for a year model are all the same their is no STI or TRD "tune" for these cars.

As wayno said it likely just a flat battery or some imobiliser issue.

does the key symbol on dash go green when key fob is in car and start button pushed.

Someone is bending the truth here.

In the unlikely event it isa actually tuned if you bought it from a reputable dealer they should sort the problem.

Thank you for the input I definitely appreciate just hearing more about knowledge I wouldn't otherwise have with these cars. The green key symbol would only light up when I pushed the clutch in. It may have stayed on when the car was in ACC mode but I can't recall for sure.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

Thank you for the input I definitely appreciate just hearing more about knowledge I wouldn't otherwise have with these cars. The green key symbol would only light up when I pushed the clutch in. It may have stayed on when the car was in ACC mode but I can't recall for sure.

If the key symbol goes green it indicates the car imobiliser has read the key fob code sucessfully.

The clutch must be depressed for vehicle to start. If the clutch switch has failed then vehicle will not start.

check the battery volts with lights on should be minimum of 12v under load

might just be flat of stuffed battery or loose battery terminal.

[Jordan Silveira]

Originally Posted by steve99

If the key symbol goes green it indicates the car imobiliser has read the key fob code sucessfully.

The clutch must be depressed for vehicle to start. If the clutch switch has failed then vehicle will not start.

check the battery volts with lights on should be minimum of 12v under load

might just be flat of stuffed battery or loose battery terminal.

I will definitely give this a try. Thank you!

[KendallH]

Subaru of America are horrible. When the engine in my 2012 STi blew the #4 cylinder (like they all do), I pretty much got the same treatment. Claimed I tuned the car, this and that. They just love to claim a car is tuned and dismiss warranty work. I would get a lawyer who specializes in Magnuson-Moss law and force SoA to prove the vehicle was tuned in the manner that they describe.

[Pat]

Honestly, I can't believe Subaru puts out cars that are so poorly programmed. I still remember the first time I rode in a friend's WRX. I thought there was something significantly wrong with it. He said something like, "No, they all hesitate like that. You just need to flash it and it will drive properly." Just amazing.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

I will definitely give this a try. Thank you!

I think sometime suggested this in one of your other threads, but try turning the steering wheel a touch so its not hard against the lock and then starting it.

C

[Jordan Silveira]

@KendallH @Pat Believe me I now know the trouble of Subaru. Honestly, I came into this thinking it was such a great brand and make amazing cars (I've always liked the blob eye and hawkeye STi's) but after finding out what I did now, I wish I would've bought an FR-S. Scion and thereby, Toyota are fantastic in service and care as I can say from my previous tC. I am slowly finding out the mess that is Subaru. Dealers are independently owned so SoA has no control over them, Subaru Roadside is just a contractor doing the service, they are not directly associated with SoA, and SoA because they are truly independent from the other arms of the Subaru name, are slow and generally careless in their effort to figure out what is going on. I honestly wish I could sell my HyperBlue just to come out even somewhat even. If I could do it all over again I would hop into an FR-S just for the sake of getting quality service by Toyota.
@cjd Thanks, yea someone mentioned that and when it wouldn't start there was a video that made it seem like a common problem but despite me turning the wheel and everything else nothing would make it start or even crank.

[Ashikabi]

It's possible the ecu was corrupted/failed. Super unlikely, but possible. If you end up being denied warranty get an ecu off the forum for $400 and call it a day. No need to pay Subaru for a brand new one.

A past owner could have tuned it and "voided" your warranty and Subaru could possibly deny warranty for that but it would be almost impossible for that to cause this current problem. I just had a very similar problem with a Toyota dealer over cam codes. Turned out a bearing slipped, not my tune being too powerful for the cams to keep up. Good luck

[Aussie]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

If I could do it all over again I would hop into an FR-S just for the sake of getting quality service by Toyota.

I wouldn't get all misty eyed about the great service you get from Toyota dealerships. My FR-S ended up needing the ECU replaced and the dealership from where I had purchased the car from refused to do the work under warranty because I had OFH installed. Fortunately the car was still drivable and another dealer said that as long as the problem was not due to the headers they would look after me.

In my experience once you find a dealership/garage/mechanic you trust, stick with them.

[Jordan Silveira]

@Ashikabi You seem to be more knowledgeable about this than I, he tried to tell me that the ECU producing values of '0" indicated the car would have just been flashed. Is there anything I can do to prove my point that it's anything but a tune or flash. What has me perplexed is he is stating it's showing 2015 BRZ calibration numbers and ID's. Is that even possible from a tune? I don't know the slightest bit about tuning or flashing.

@Aussie I understand and believe me I should have gone back to say I have yet to encounter an outstanding dealer. Toyota indeed showed their incompetence more than once but I just never encountered such poor service and an absolute careless approach to customer satisfaction. The fact that I've been told I am being dishonest, otherwise insinuating I am a liar is preposterous and completely unprofessional.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

@Ashikabi You seem to be more knowledgeable about this than I, he tried to tell me that the ECU producing values of '0" indicated the car would have just been flashed. Is there anything I can do to prove my point that it's anything but a tune or flash. What has me perplexed is he is stating it's showing 2015 BRZ calibration numbers and ID's. Is that even possible from a tune? I don't know the slightest bit about tuning or flashing.

@Aussie I understand and believe me I should have gone back to say I have yet to encounter an outstanding dealer. Toyota indeed showed their incompetence more than once but I just never encountered such poor service and an absolute careless approach to customer satisfaction. The fact that I've been told I am being dishonest, otherwise insinuating I am a liar is preposterous and completely unprofessional.

Unfortunately I don't know much more than you. You could get a tuners opinion but Subaru won't give a shit cuz they are the "experts". Maybe if you took them to court but obviously we don't want to fuss with that. It seems very unlikely that you would have a flash from the wrong year. Other than they are probably lying to you and there likely is nothing you can do I can't offer much help