Slip'n Slide!

[MVJ1975]

Yep, I realized I needed to be a little more careful in the rain a few weeks ago after pulling an unintentional drift around a corner. I'm sure it looked very impressive to the guy behind me, and in the end the car remained completely controllable, but it was a bit of a shock to me at the time...

[BuBlake]

Originally Posted by CarGuyNeil

The worst part was you disabled all traction control to experiment with other vehicles on the road next to you. If you want to play...take it to an abandoned parking lot or a track but don't be stupid on public roads with innocent people next to you. That is selfish and stupid!

Never once did I feel out of control. I have been driving rear-wheel drive cars since I got my license. As a matter of fact, the car's behavior would be more unpredicatable to me with the TC and SC on. I wasn't hot rodding or trying to show off either.

[SOneThreeCoupe]

Wow.

I am surprised and a little disappointed at the number of people caught out by this car in the wet. I have a 240SX (and have since '04 with zero crashes) and it's squirrelly in the rain. 2250lbs, 150+whp. It is also set up seriously stiff with -4.25 degrees camber in the front and -2.75 degrees in the rear and runs max performance summer tires. It's forgiving in the damp, but add standing water and it's something you have to stay on top of all the time. I've never had it sideways on the freeway or above second gear- it's not worth the potential crash. Feather the throttle and gentle with the clutch and you have no problems.

The video shows a ham-fisted driver trying to get the car sideways and being far too slow on the countersteer and far too abrupt with the gas to regain control; it's a marketing thing to show that VSC is there for your safety- I'd still be embarrassed to be the driver. I am stoked at the amount of angle the VSC allows in sport mode- definitely enough to have fun without going over the top. I'd likely drive the car on track with VSC on sport until I became comfortable with the dynamics.

The FR-S has a soft rear, which IMO is extremely controllable if you understand weight transfer. Maybe it's different due to the (IMO) garbage tires, but it should be very progressive. Coupled with low torque, the car should be a gentle cat (censor dictated strange turn of phrase).

Also, plenty of cars exist from before the time with traction control. Is it unsafe, unintelligent and irresponsible to drive those cars?

[jarviz]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Combined with the fact that a lot of FRS owners have never dirven a RWD car, I think we are going to see some broken cars. Not sure exactly how muchis the tires, but this car can bite you if you are not careful. Winter is going to be interesting.

never driven a rwd AND a MT hahaha, I can't imagine what's gonna happen when the snowstorms hit.

[SubieNate]

I was just thinking, part of it may be caused by the light weight. In snow and rain, extra mass is a GOOD thing that makes your tires cut down to the underlying road and get grip.

Ever see an F1 car during a rain race as it exits the pits/makes other slow speed maneuvers? It can be a bit sketch even with the world's best drivers behind the wheel.

I remember an article with the lead engineer on the R35 GTR (forget his name, some big shot old guy at Nissan ) and he mentioned that for the average driver, having a heavier car with tons of grip is actually easier to drive fast and stated that the GTR's weight gives it the same apparent down force as a purpose built race car.

Nathan

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by SOneThreeCoupe

Also, plenty of cars exist from before the time with traction control. Is it unsafe, unintelligent and irresponsible to drive those cars?

What's unsafe and irresponsible is choosing public roads as the place to explore a car's limits, in this case meaning turning tc off without adjusting driving style. OP is somewhat off the hook because previous experience had erroneously taught him that there's little difference whether the nannies are on or off. And he gets credit for clearly having modified his viewpoint and for posting his newly learned lesson for the benefit of others.

[ftc~brz]

....go test drive a mustang gt on a rainy day, that will be way worse than this car and harder to correct into. I drove mine through 3 CT blizzards in one year. My traction control button was a trunk full of CINDER BLOCKS.


...sorry I am not encouraging anyone to go out and hurt themselves or anyone else....

It takes time to get used to rear wheel drive but I have personally found it easier to handle in snow than FWD.

[ashtray]

Originally Posted by jarviz

never driven a rwd AND a MT hahaha, I can't imagine what's gonna happen when the snowstorms hit.

And people haven't ponied up for a set of winter tires thinking their summer-only tires should be just fine in the snow!

I wonder what car dealers in snow areas will do when selling these cars during the winter months. Allow customers to drive off their lot in summer tires? Could be a lawsuit.

Basically, anyone buying this car who lives in an area where there is a winter needs to plan on the added expense of winter tires - bc a set of winter tires is a whole lot cheaper than a spin at 35mph.

[FR-S_Tacoma]

Originally Posted by ashtray

And people haven't ponied up for a set of winter tires thinking their summer-only tires should be just fine in the snow!

Basically, anyone buying this car who lives in an area where there is a winter needs to plan on the added expense of winter tires - bc a set of winter tires is a whole lot cheaper than a spin at 35mph.

Something i haven't seen anyone mention when referring to the snow is... winter beater maybe and just don't drive the FRS/BRZ? Or is this too inexpensive of a car for most people to warrant a second car to keep it nice????

I have my 4x4 tacoma so i don't care what the car will do in the winter...

[ashtray]

^^^Heck, I have a WRX for rain days! Rain beater? Hahaha

Clouds in the sky, BRZ and Miata stay in the garage.

[FT86R]

Originally Posted by BuBlake

Respectfully, I think I see why; All of your other cars were/are front-wheel-drive, weren't they? haha

yes ....yes they were , it was the first time i drove it in the rain and i fuck up

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Yeah, it's going to be interesting for me. I'm used to all wheel drive traction where I can always floor it in the rain and it never lets go. But in the snow, it behaves more like a rear wheel drive car so I guess I'll just have to pretend like I'm driving on snow when I'm in the rain. But I will probably be getting good tires for it anyway which will help. One side of me wants as much grip as possible while the other wants to slide and play. I wonder which side will win out?

BTW, I am really glad this car has stability control (even though that's standard these days). I don't think I would want a rear wheel drive daily driver without the option of turning on stability control for tricky situations. And it's awesome that it has 2 different settings and the ability to turn it off.

better hope the "grip" side of you wins out! for your sake, in THIS car!

Originally Posted by CarGuyNeil

The worst part was you disabled all traction control to experiment with other vehicles on the road next to you. If you want to play...take it to an abandoned parking lot or a track but don't be stupid on public roads with innocent people next to you. That is selfish and stupid!

i agree! super dangerous to play with other cars in close proximity!

Originally Posted by jarviz

never driven a rwd AND a MT hahaha, I can't imagine what's gonna happen when the snowstorms hit.

slow down,and be cautious! and get off the roads if you can, when it's snowing!

Originally Posted by ftc~brz

....go test drive a mustang gt on a rainy day, that will be way worse than this car and harder to correct into. I drove mine through 3 CT blizzards in one year. My traction control button was a trunk full of CINDER BLOCKS.


...sorry I am not encouraging anyone to go out and hurt themselves or anyone else....

It takes time to get used to rear wheel drive but I have personally found it easier to handle in snow than FWD.

it can be ,IF you add "ballast" which apparently you did. weight is a 'critical"
factor,and the more you have ,the more "bite" you will have in the "crap".that, and a good set of dedicated snows!

Originally Posted by ashtray

And people haven't ponied up for a set of winter tires thinking their summer-only tires should be just fine in the snow!

they will get a "ton" of experience!..first major snow!

I wonder what car dealers in snow areas will do when selling these cars during the winter months. Allow customers to drive off their lot in summer tires? Could be a lawsuit.

Basically, anyone buying this car who lives in an area where there is a winter needs to plan on the added expense of winter tires - bc a set of winter tires is a whole lot cheaper than a spin at 35mph.

this is true! car is too light,and needs proper tires and added 'ballast" to
travel safely in the significant snow.

[Eurasianman]

I started out driving a 97 Toyota Tacoma that had a 3.4L V6 and was a 5 speed manual. This truck had no traction control, no abs, and an open rear differential. It did have 4WD, but I rarely used it. This truck taught me a lot about driving a rwd vehicle in inclement weather (rain and snow). Having driven a FWD car for the last 5 years, I'm sure I can adapt quickly to driving a rwd vehicle in wet/snow conditions. Furthermore, I've already played with the car a little bit and realize that it takes very little to get the back end out... leaving everything on (traction on and VSC on, not sport) and giving less than 4k rpm. Stay safe fellas.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by FT86R

yes ....yes they were , it was the first time i drove it in the rain and i fuck up

Hey cheer up, you were pushed off into the deep end unprepared. I'm beginning to think these cars ought to be sold with a day of instruction (e.g. car control clinic) for RWD novices, similar to how they do with the R8, 911 and other high-performance cars.