Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[Jonsey]

Just finished reading through here and there is a wealth of informaiton, a big thanks to all who have contributed so much. A little back story and a few questions.

I did my first HPDE last weekend and am completely hooked. I grew up racing go karts with my dad but it has been a number of years since I have been on a track and first time I have ever taken a car to the track. It went really well but by the second day I was really fading the brakes and pushing the stock tires to the edge, especially around fast sweepers.

As I prepare for the next event, I want to make some upgrades to the car but want to get the most for my money and I want to make sure I plan for future growth of the car. My ultimate goal is to have a daily driver that is easily trackable. with that said, here are my plans in order:

- Upgrade to koni shocks (currently running Eibach pro springs and blew the left rear shock at the track)
- Upgrade to Carbotech XP10s with Torque T700
- Upgrade wheels/tires: My ultimate goal is to have roughly 225 whp and 200ft/lb. Should I go with 225, 235 or 245s? I know 225 would be great for now but am not sure if that will be enough tire at the higher power (considering ZII, R11As, etc.)
- Alignment- Camber bolts in the front and SPL LCA and SPL toe arms (shop I spoke with recommended both SPL products, are they both necessary?). Should I go ahead and go with camber plates now for the front? I would prefer to avoid the cost if possible but will do it if necessary.

That is the plan in the short run. Please let me know any thoughts or recommendations.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

With a 17x8, either offset will work. Our RPF1 is 17x8 +45, and we run a 225 tire on it. Even at -4.5 degrees of camber, they don't touch the springs, even when using stock-size (Swift spec-r) springs on OEM dampers.

How much camber is from bolts/slotting struts, and how much from top mounts? I'm at -2* front and I'm really close to the spring perches, whiteline bolts in the upper hole with some slotting to get more. Running 17x8 +45 RPF1's with 225/45 ZII's.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Jonsey

Just finished reading through here and there is a wealth of informaiton, a big thanks to all who have contributed so much. A little back story and a few questions.

I did my first HPDE last weekend and am completely hooked. I grew up racing go karts with my dad but it has been a number of years since I have been on a track and first time I have ever taken a car to the track. It went really well but by the second day I was really fading the brakes and pushing the stock tires to the edge, especially around fast sweepers.

As I prepare for the next event, I want to make some upgrades to the car but want to get the most for my money and I want to make sure I plan for future growth of the car. My ultimate goal is to have a daily driver that is easily trackable. with that said, here are my plans in order:

- Upgrade to koni shocks (currently running Eibach pro springs and blew the left rear shock at the track)
- Upgrade to Carbotech XP10s with Torque T700
- Upgrade wheels/tires: My ultimate goal is to have roughly 225 whp and 200ft/lb. Should I go with 225, 235 or 245s? I know 225 would be great for now but am not sure if that will be enough tire at the higher power (considering ZII, R11As, etc.)
- Alignment- Camber bolts in the front and SPL LCA and SPL toe arms (shop I spoke with recommended both SPL products, are they both necessary?). Should I go ahead and go with camber plates now for the front? I would prefer to avoid the cost if possible but will do it if necessary.

That is the plan in the short run. Please let me know any thoughts or recommendations.

1. Koni or Bilstein B6/B8
2. XP10 or Club Racer are good choices
3. Stick with 225/45/17 tires first. Once the power has been developed, 245/40/17 should be okay.
4. SPL LCA & Toe Arms are what we recommend. We've tested both and have proven they work extremely well. Raceseng camber plates get you the desired camber setting and can be configured for any coilover setup (OEM, KW, Bilstein, TEIN, Penske, MCS, JRZ, etc.) so it's more of an initial investment issue. Whiteline camber bolt does give you a little camber, but not nearly enough. We recommend -3 for the front to be worthwhile.

Hope this all helps out.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by wparsons

How much camber is from bolts/slotting struts, and how much from top mounts? I'm at -2* front and I'm really close to the spring perches, whiteline bolts in the upper hole with some slotting to get more. Running 17x8 +45 RPF1's with 225/45 ZII's.

We've ran -3.4 of camber up front on the 17x8 +45 setup before without issue. Slotting may be more of an issue that having a camber plate since you move wheel inboard towards the shock versus moving the entire assembly.

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

I'm planning to setup for TTD class and trying to plan the points. I'm already gonna take a 3 point hit for having the paddle shifters...

If you are talking NASA TTD, my mod list so far puts me only at 12 points ...


Mods with their 2014 NASA point values:

Tires:
Currently on ZIIs, but RS3s are the same point value (120-200 treadware street tires) +2
(Note - moving to R-Comp 50-130 treadware is a +7)
Base tire width for TTD is 245 btw

Engine:
FT-86 SpeedFactory Catted UEL Header +2
Tomei Expreme Ti 60S Single Exit Titantium Exhaust +2
(can add aftermarket overpipe and uncatted frontpipe if desired for no more points due to the above point add)
Add one point for removal, upgrade, or modification of Catalytic converter +1
Custom tune with fuel maps for E85 .... FREE
Oil Cooler (recommended) - FREE
Transmission Cooler (not sure it's needed) - FREE

Suspension:
KW V3 Coliovers +3
Modified Springs (came with the coilovers) +2
Raceseng CasCam Caster and Camber plates FREE


Like I said - my current points are at 12, giving me the freedom to use R-comp tires should I choose to. Other wise I can pick some other items to look at for more performance, but tires are really where you are want to have points for.

Overall, I feel like I maximized my mods pretty well. Only issue I worried about were my Volk TE37SLs ... They are 18x9 ... and I'm worried a 245/40 tire may be a bit stretched ... but I think I'm fine. An R-comp tire will put me at 17 points ... leaving 2 more to stay in TTD

Hope this helps!

[Jonsey]

Originally Posted by CSG David

1. Koni or Bilstein B6/B8
2. XP10 or Club Racer are good choices
3. Stick with 225/45/17 tires first. Once the power has been developed, 245/40/17 should be okay.
4. SPL LCA & Toe Arms are what we recommend. We've tested both and have proven they work extremely well. Raceseng camber plates get you the desired camber setting and can be configured for any coilover setup (OEM, KW, Bilstein, TEIN, Penske, MCS, JRZ, etc.) so it's more of an initial investment issue. Whiteline camber bolt does give you a little camber, but not nearly enough. We recommend -3 for the front to be worthwhile.

Hope this all helps out.

David- Thanks a lot for the confirmations. As a follow up, what size wheel do you recommend?

Part of my thinking with stepping all the way up to the 245 now is buying just one set of wheels. My understanding is 225s are best run on 8" wheels and 245s are best run on 9" wheels. I would prefer to avoid buying two sets if stepping all the way up now just means losing some speed in the straights.

[gramicci101]

So, you basically start with a stock vehicle and you get a certain amount of points to spend on mods, right? Different mods are worth different points, and you have the latitude to configure your car how you see fit?

So are there different classes as dictated by certain mods? Or with different amounts of available points?

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So, you basically start with a stock vehicle and you get a certain amount of points to spend on mods, right? Different mods are worth different points, and you have the latitude to configure your car how you see fit?

So are there different classes as dictated by certain mods? Or with different amounts of available points?

Basically each stock car is assigned a base class.

Every modification you make that has performance increasing attributes costs you points. Some modification for safety, or non performance increasing are free from adding points.

Each base class is awarded 19 points to use as you wish. Once you hit 20, you move up to the next class.

A TTD car with 20 points would move to TTC. This would mean you would be going against cars that probably have a much greater power to weight ratio than you do. Which would make things harder on you ...

Again - this is for NASA TT ... I have included a link below that you can look at the rules and the point modification system.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/time_trial_rules.pdf

http://www.nasaproracing.com/racing/...2014%20v1.xlsx

[gramicci101]

Gotcha. I saw you didn't have brakes listed, are they a performance mod or a safety mod? Or is it split up, where a BBK is performance, but cooling ducts are safety?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Jonsey

David- Thanks a lot for the confirmations. As a follow up, what size wheel do you recommend?

Part of my thinking with stepping all the way up to the 245 now is buying just one set of wheels. My understanding is 225s are best run on 8" wheels and 245s are best run on 9" wheels. I would prefer to avoid buying two sets if stepping all the way up now just means losing some speed in the straights.

You can run a 225/45/17 on a 9" as long as the 225 is an EHP tire: RS3, Z2, AD08R, etc.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by TrogDor the Burninator

If you are talking NASA TTD, my mod list so far puts me only at 12 points ...


Mods with their 2014 NASA point values:

Tires:
Currently on ZIIs, but RS3s are the same point value (120-200 treadware street tires) +2
(Note - moving to R-Comp 50-130 treadware is a +7)
Base tire width for TTD is 245 btw

Engine:
FT-86 SpeedFactory Catted UEL Header +2
Tomei Expreme Ti 60S Single Exit Titantium Exhaust +2
(can add aftermarket overpipe and uncatted frontpipe if desired for no more points due to the above point add)
Add one point for removal, upgrade, or modification of Catalytic converter +1
Custom tune with fuel maps for E85 .... FREE
Oil Cooler (recommended) - FREE
Transmission Cooler (not sure it's needed) - FREE

Suspension:
KW V3 Coliovers +3
Modified Springs (came with the coilovers) +2
Raceseng CasCam Caster and Camber plates FREE


Like I said - my current points are at 12, giving me the freedom to use R-comp tires should I choose to. Other wise I can pick some other items to look at for more performance, but tires are really where you are want to have points for.

Overall, I feel like I maximized my mods pretty well. Only issue I worried about were my Volk TE37SLs ... They are 18x9 ... and I'm worried a 245/40 tire may be a bit stretched ... but I think I'm fine. An R-comp tire will put me at 17 points ... leaving 2 more to stay in TTD

Hope this helps!

Epic brain fart. Didn't realize the KW V3 doesn't really have external reservoirs so it's not +10 points.

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Gotcha. I saw you didn't have brakes listed, are they a performance mod or a safety mod? Or is it split up, where a BBK is performance, but cooling ducts are safety?

A BBK will cost you points ... but if you are still NA on this car, all you need are some good brake pads. That is unless you want to turn your car into a race only vehicle, but at our HP and weight of the car, I don't think you need a BBK for a 20 to 25 minute session on the track.

I currently use Ferodo DS2500 pads on the front and back. They are a combo street/track pad. They are kinda noisy though for a daily driver (a bit of squeak here and there) but I have enjoyed them on the track. I'm thinking about moving to Ferodo DS1.11 or DS3000 track only pads once these wear out.


You want to change out your brake fluid though ... opinions vary on the perfect fluid, but I have used Torque RT700 since last track season, and have had no issues. I actuall picked that fluid up from the guys at CounterSpace Garage ...

Cooling ducts that change any aero are point mods ...

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by TrogDor the Burninator

A BBK will cost you points ... but if you are still NA on this car, all you need are some good brake pads. That is unless you want to turn your car into a race only vehicle, but at our HP and weight of the car, I don't think you need a BBK for a 20 to 25 minute session on the track.

I currently use Ferodo DS2500 pads on the front and back. They are a combo street/track pad. They are kinda noisy though for a daily driver (a bit of squeak here and there) but I have enjoyed them on the track. I'm thinking about moving to Ferodo DS1.11 or DS3000 track only pads once these wear out.


You want to change out your brake fluid though ... opinions vary on the perfect fluid, but I have used Torque RT700 since last track season, and have had no issues. I actuall picked that fluid up from the guys at CounterSpace Garage ...

Cooling ducts that change any aero are point mods ...

I know ATL_BRZ was to the point of glazing dedicated track pads, even with brake cooling ducts and titanium shims. He went to the AP Sprint kit, which it has a much higher thermal capacity while maintaining the OEM bias.

So the FT-86SF splitter and Driveway Labs diffuser would cost you, huh? What kind of cars are in the next class up?

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I know ATL_BRZ was to the point of glazing dedicated track pads, even with brake cooling ducts and titanium shims. He went to the AP Sprint kit, which it has a much higher thermal capacity while maintaining the OEM bias.

So the FT-86SF splitter and Driveway Labs diffuser would cost you, huh? What kind of cars are in the next class up?

He's driving a hell of a lot harder than me then lol ... I haven't had that happen at my track days with 4 20 to 25 minute sessions per day