Going Built Motor - Blew engine on track - Suggestions

[pgranberg11]

Looking for some suggestions and I've been doing some research on the forum/google. Read about I beams vs. H beams, rod bolts, and a whole ton of other slew of things. The past week has been a huge learning curve ever since I blew my motor on track and trying to decide with what I want to do. Swapping another motor that isn't an fa20 is not an option because costs are well into 10K from what I've seen.

I'm hoping to hear suggestions from people who have built their engines, engine builders, or whomever.

Here's what I'm looking at so far:

My car is c38 supercharged and I will be running ethanol maybe around 14-16psi. Looking at a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Maybe run 86.5mm piston to bore out the cylinder from 86mm. Final power, I would like 400-450whp~. I know at a little bit more power transmissions start to become consumables. Something semi conservative since this will be my daily; but will see some track weekends from time to time.

Currently, I'm looking at Brian Crower Rods either the I Beam or the H Beams due to cost at about 600~ as they are the cheapest. I'm staying away from the skunk2 rods due to my own reasons. BC also has more expensive rods that come with the ARP 625+ rod bolts for 2-3 hundred dollars more.

But at that point I'm in the price range of all the other rods (manley pro, pauter, etc). minus the Carillo's being the most expensive at 1500~. So is it worth it to upgrade just for the rod bolts? I can see that all the rods built for the fa20 that are aftermarket come with ARP2000 bolts. Differences between ARP2000 and ARP625+?

As far as piston selection go I found:

JE is the cheapest at $527.
Wiseco at $554.
CP at $604

Pros and cons of either? Or is it more personal preference?

At this power level is there anything that I am missing? Never built an engine before; but eager and willing to learn. I've literally done everything to the car myself, minus tuning. I am pretty open to learning how to build an engine and pretty mechanically inclined.

Thanks for everyone's help in advanced.

[Fred E]

Are you going to be running ethanol full time? If so, I strongly suggest getting custom stock compression pistons made. Making 400whp is going to be difficult with only 14-16psi at 10.5:1 compression with a supercharger. I'm not sure of the price difference between CP and JE for custom ratio pistons, but that choice would be mostly personal preference if the prices are similar. Manley rods are used quite often in FA20 builds as they are known to be reliable. You don't necessarily need the stronger rod bolts unless you're planning on going for even more power or a higher redline. I would also suggest upgraded GSC valve springs, but the stock valves are fine for your intended power level.

[pgranberg11]

Originally Posted by Fred E

Are you going to be running ethanol full time? If so, I strongly suggest getting custom stock compression pistons made. Making 400whp is going to be difficult with only 14-16psi at 10.5:1 compression with a supercharger. I'm not sure of the price difference between CP and JE for custom ratio pistons, but that choice would be mostly personal preference if the prices are similar. Manley rods are used quite often in FA20 builds as they are known to be reliable. You don't necessarily need the stronger rod bolts unless you're planning on going for even more power or a higher redline. I would also suggest upgraded GSC valve springs, but the stock valves are fine for your intended power level.

I'd technically be running flex fuel. But most of the time it will probably be E75 and up due to the availability in my area.

[Fred E]

Originally Posted by pgranberg11

I'd technically be running flex fuel. But most of the time it will probably be E75 and up due to the availability in my area.

Definitely custom stock compression ratio pistons then!

[C11GEN]

I was reading the other day about the faults in the FA20 when you throw FI at it and this article is worth the read! Gives some insight on major components worth replacing and what parts are sufficient. I am debating between the swaps and built engine. Seems the ARP bolts, forged pistons and rods. Ive been told over and over if youre engine is out and being built spend the extra bit of money to replace everything that may go... No point not doing head bolts and then they snap under boost.
https://www.revvolution.com/blog/201...he-fa20-4u-gse


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[C11GEN]

What happen led to blow the engine? You may wanna bring it to the machine shop for inspections for cracks. Also a suggestion I have seen is to bore the block out to fit sleevs in to add to the structural integrity of your block.

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[Deep Six]

You really need to start with the all in budget and work backwards. I have a fresh block, forged internals with 11.5:1 pistons, ARP bolts and GSC valve train components. I would definitely focus on upgrading the moving parts before sleeving the block as they are much more prone to failure.


My build was a bit north of 10K but I also had the heads machined as well.

[C11GEN]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

You really need to start with the all in budget and work backwards. I have a fresh block, forged internals with 11.5:1 pistons, ARP bolts and GSC valve train components. I would definitely focus on upgrading the moving parts before sleeving the block as they are much more prone to failure.


My build was a bit north of 10K but I also had the heads machined as well.

I was just mentionong sleeving the block if he was gonna bring it to a machine shop to get checked. For the extra money now its easier then taking it out again, tear down, get bored and then put back together. Just do it while its apart or you'll never do it.

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[pgranberg11]

Originally Posted by C11GEN

I was reading the other day about the faults in the FA20 when you throw FI at it and this article is worth the read! Gives some insight on major components worth replacing and what parts are sufficient. I am debating between the swaps and built engine. Seems the ARP bolts, forged pistons and rods. Ive been told over and over if youre engine is out and being built spend the extra bit of money to replace everything that may go... No point not doing head bolts and then they snap under boost.
https://www.revvolution.com/blog/201...he-fa20-4u-gse


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Thanks, I've seen this before, and it's definitely been a help!

Originally Posted by C11GEN

What happen led to blow the engine? You may wanna bring it to the machine shop for inspections for cracks. Also a suggestion I have seen is to bore the block out to fit sleevs in to add to the structural integrity of your block.

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no point for that. there is a legit hole in the block and it's not salvageable. I'm guessing a rod snapped and it shot through block. it's been sitting in my garage for a week now. lol need to find time to pull it.

[pgranberg11]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

You really need to start with the all in budget and work backwards. I have a fresh block, forged internals with 11.5:1 pistons, ARP bolts and GSC valve train components. I would definitely focus on upgrading the moving parts before sleeving the block as they are much more prone to failure.


My build was a bit north of 10K but I also had the heads machined as well.

you say, 10k, did you do the work yourself? or are these just parts costs? if 10k is what I'm going to spend I might as well go all in for an ls swap. I'm not scared of doing it myself. If something goes bad or it isn't assembled properly by myself due to a piston not seated correctly or something else, i'm not worried about spending a few extra hundred more and redoing it. but 10k??? that's an insane amount...

[C11GEN]

Originally Posted by pgranberg11

you say, 10k, did you do the work yourself? or are these just parts costs? if 10k is what I'm going to spend I might as well go all in for an ls swap. I'm not scared of doing it myself. If something goes bad or it isn't assembled properly by myself due to a piston not seated correctly or something else, i'm not worried about spending a few extra hundred more and redoing it. but 10k??? that's an insane amount...

You're already going to be in it 4k for a new block (unless you go used), if your pistons blew out the side, you'll need new pistons, bearings, rods, rings, gaskets... you're in a brand new bottom end pretty much! thats going to be probably north of 10K regardless if you do the work yourself. Only good thing is you'll have all your accessories and pullies which will save you money.

Let us know how much your build comes out to. Im interested in knowing the costs of the internal build end up being. Im leaning more towards an LS Swap, but i dont own a turbo/Supercharger yet so im not invested in that route yet.

[C11GEN]

Also a LS swap is relatively cheap if youre willing to sacrifice the stock options like cluster, etc. To get a running LS swap in your car i would be surprised if it was over 10K work being done yourself. Depends how good you are at fabrication to save yourself money with engine mounts, etc. It gets expensive if you want to run the special wiring harness' or Canbus' that allow you to have ABS, traction control, etc. Full engine swap kit for the LS is 7500 plus you need the engine. if you do the work yourself, you may be close to the same investment, but 400whp and 413 torque.

[solus]

im making 435hp on AVO's turbo.

Carrillo rods
CP pistons 12.5:1
Kings Bearings
ARP 1/2" head studs, main
Supertech valves and springs


16psi E85

I have lower boost settings for 91

[justinco]

I've had good luck with Wiseco pistons on other boosted cars. I would recommend having an experienced engine builder assemble the bottom end with proper tools, clean room, lubes, etc. At least, that is the route I went. Good luck!