HKS Engine Specs

[Uplink]

Hey guys,


Does anyone know where/if there are hp/tq numbers or (god willing) dyno sheets for the HKS FA20 complete engines run NA? Ideally, I'm looking for info on the Step 3 top end one (23011-AT005) to ballpark the capabilities out of the box but the entry level Step 0 (23011-AT006) would be helpful too.



Goog-Fu doesn't seem to be turning up anything, HKS is tight lipped about mentioning any power numbers in any of their documentation, and even the state-side vendors selling the engines don't post any numbers on their websites. VERY strange.



To head off the inevitable comments ( ), yes, I know $42k is a bit off the wall for an NA FA20 but I'm trying to do a comparison here for research. Also, the AT006 Step 0 is only $20k and keep in mind an IAG Stage 2 or Crawford short block alone is about $5k and that's nowhere near ready to drop in to a car and go, especially if you wanted an all-new engine and not pieces salvaged from a donor.



Thanks!

[weederr33]

Honestly, they are so prohibitively expensive for the majority of owners, you might have to pioneer it. That’s the only real way to get data.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by Uplink

Hey guys,


Does anyone know where/if there are hp/tq numbers or (god willing) dyno sheets for the HKS FA20 complete engines run NA? Ideally, I'm looking for info on the Step 3 top end one (23011-AT005) to ballpark the capabilities out of the box but the entry level Step 0 (23011-AT006) would be helpful too.



Goog-Fu doesn't seem to be turning up anything, HKS is tight lipped about mentioning any power numbers in any of their documentation, and even the state-side vendors selling the engines don't post any numbers on their websites. VERY strange.



To head off the inevitable comments ( ), yes, I know $42k is a bit off the wall for an NA FA20 but I'm trying to do a comparison here for research. Also, the AT006 Step 0 is only $20k and keep in mind an IAG Stage 2 or Crawford short block alone is about $5k and that's nowhere near ready to drop in to a car and go, especially if you wanted an all-new engine and not pieces salvaged from a donor.



Thanks!

I got my IAG stage 2 built, timed, and shipped longblock for less than 1/2 that price. Spending 20k on an FA20 is crackhead tier imo. Also if you are going NA you dont need a stage 2 either.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Uplink

Goog-Fu doesn't seem to be turning up anything, HKS is tight lipped about mentioning any power numbers in any of their documentation, and even the state-side vendors selling the engines don't post any numbers on their websites. VERY strange.

Setups and dyno's very so wildly I wouldn't want to put numbers on it if I was them either.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Setups and dyno's very so wildly I wouldn't want to put numbers on it if I was them either.

The thing I don't buy about this though is that you can flip open a Jegs, Summit, or any number of performance catalogs and pretty much every available crate engine will have the HP/TQ specs. The manufacturer can safely run an engine dyno in-house and post those numbers. That's what really makes me think the numbers are underwhelming at best.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Uplink

The thing I don't buy about this though is that you can flip open a Jegs, Summit, or any number of performance catalogs and pretty much every available crate engine will have the HP/TQ specs. The manufacturer can safely run an engine dyno in-house and post those numbers. That's what really makes me think the numbers are underwhelming at best.

Fair enough point. Though companies like Blueprint who build those for companies like Jegs probably drunkenly trip over more SBC's then the number of FA20's HKS builds a year.

[RedReplicant]

Pretty much. You can go order a complete NA K24 with a warranty rated at 340hp, 360hp, 400hp, 440hp, etc on up from 4Piston but they get there through volume.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Honestly, they are so prohibitively expensive for the majority of owners, you might have to pioneer it. That’s the only real way to get data.

Haven't had any luck getting a working HKS USA phone number. Next step is e-mail to support. Though I really would have liked to have a live conversation.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Fair enough point. Though companies like Blueprint who build those for companies like Jegs probably drunkenly trip over more SBC's then the number of FA20's HKS builds a year.

Also true.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by Breadman

I got my IAG stage 2 built, timed, and shipped longblock for less than 1/2 that price. Spending 20k on an FA20 is crackhead tier imo. Also if you are going NA you dont need a stage 2 either.

The only difference is the HKS isn't a long block, it's a "complete engine". I take that to mean drop-in, connect existing air/fuel/water/electric connections and turn the key (plus break-in obviously), just like any other crate engine.

If you were to start tacking on intake manifold, TB, coil packs, etc., it's easy to see the price climb. I'm not saying it's in any way rational to spend that kind of money on one of these engines, but I can see how it could get there.

On the Stage 2, it never hurts (other than the wallet) to over build. I have a custom Merkel 400ci SB in my Vette that I way over spec'ed. This year makes 20 years it's been in the car with no more maintenance than plugs and oil and it still runs like a champ. Expensive, yes. Worth it, definitely. Especially when you amortize the value. If you had no car payment, would you spend less than $150/mo for the next 20 years knowing your car would give you North of 500 all day every day?

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by RedReplicant

Pretty much. You can go order a complete NA K24 with a warranty rated at 340hp, 360hp, 400hp, 440hp, etc on up from 4Piston but they get there through volume.

That's a whole other discussion that (for the most part) starts and ends with not being able to get my daily driver inspected (yay, NY). Past there, the lack of torque and the sound combined with the all-in conversion costs and modifications makes it a less and less appealing option (for me). I do like the HP bump and weight drop though.

[RedReplicant]

Originally Posted by Uplink

That's a whole other discussion that (for the most part) starts and ends with not being able to get my daily driver inspected (yay, NY). Past there, the lack of torque and the sound combined with the all-in conversion costs and modifications makes it a less and less appealing option (for me). I do like the HP bump and weight drop though.

Eh, I mean on the same dyno:

My K24 car + DC drop in cams on 91: 192 wheel torque
My K24 car on 91: 177 wheel torque
My friend's stock FA24 car on 91: 173 wheel torque
My FBO FA20 car on 91: 152 wheel torque

It might work out best to wait until the path to drop a FA24 into a first gen works itself in... really hard to beat OEM reliability / price / etc.

In either case, I'd love to see how a HKS kit works out and I'd love to follow that build.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by Uplink

The only difference is the HKS isn't a long block, it's a "complete engine". I take that to mean drop-in, connect existing air/fuel/water/electric connections and turn the key (plus break-in obviously), just like any other crate engine.

If you were to start tacking on intake manifold, TB, coil packs, etc., it's easy to see the price climb. I'm not saying it's in any way rational to spend that kind of money on one of these engines, but I can see how it could get there.

On the Stage 2, it never hurts (other than the wallet) to over build. I have a custom Merkel 400ci SB in my Vette that I way over spec'ed. This year makes 20 years it's been in the car with no more maintenance than plugs and oil and it still runs like a champ. Expensive, yes. Worth it, definitely. Especially when you amortize the value. If you had no car payment, would you spend less than $150/mo for the next 20 years knowing your car would give you North of 500 all day every day?

Ok so I paid under 13k for it and had extra parts that i sold. Also if you know so much why are you asking us?

[terboboost]

It's not too surprising for me that they don't provide HP/Torque numbers. Their complete engine is designed for forced induction, which means there is a MASSIVE variable (what turbo) that will determine the power numbers.

So you say "yea but they could put a HP limit number then"...except if they do that, then when Jonny Idiot decides to tune his 400 hp engine like garbage, and it blows, he goes back to HKS saying "you said it would handle 600 hp".

They go into detail on what is included with their built engine stages. Anyone who is considering buying this engine should have the ability to read between the lines and figure out what they think the engine's reasonable limit is.