Anyone else wish there was a "Base" BRZ?

[EBrake]

I've been lurking for a while, I'm 80% sold on a BRZ/FRS and would prefer the BRZ for a variety of reasons. I just don't like the available trim choices.

I know they're marketing the FR-S as the "kid car", BRZ as more "mature" and I know they haven't released any official pricing yet, but I have a hard time justifying the rumored ~$2k price increase over the FRS for HIDs and Nav. I guess my opinion comes from my parents buying a Subaru Outback last year (I know... different car but same brand). The built in Nav system is complete garbage, to the point of being virtually unusable. It's bad for radio use as well. I assume the BRZ will have similar software. The auto AC/heat in the Outback is garbage too, it likes to only blow hot air or cold air and has trouble "maintaining" temperatures like it should (IE: 65 degrees blows cold air, 66 blows hot air). It's just not designed well. Personally, I wouldn't want either of these features from Subaru even if they were free.

I've never owned a car with HIDs, but then again I've also never had a problem seeing at night... Maybe they are worth it?

The only features I want are leather and perhaps push-start (if you can leave the key in your pocket). Unfortunately it's hard to justify $4-5k over the FR-S for just those. While it's reasonable what Subaru is charging for their packages, like the Outback I fear the features will end up being "checklist" selling points which you don't realize are total crap until after you drive out of the dealership. For this reason, I wish there was more flexibility with the trims... otherwise I'd be happy with a simple base trim on the BRZ, even if it still cost a bit more than the FR-S.

[tranzformer]

Wish they were bringing the RA version over. I emailed SOA and they said no plans for RA now but they would forward my email to the product managers as they like to hear what customers think. RA would have been perfect fit. Some say it would hurt Scion, but in Japan and other countries they have no problem with Toyota and Subaru offering similar trims.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Trims and packages have to do with cost. Subaru can't afford to have you option a car out like the Germans, where everything is optional and you can literally have it any way you want it.

I do agree that Subaru is going for a more mature market. You have to deal with that or get an FR-S, it's pretty simple. Is it optimal? No. I don't want NAV, but I'm getting the "Premium" trim. Do I want leather/Alcantara? Yes, but I can't justify the added expense of other features I really DON'T want.

[Ryephile]

I agree; the trim packages aren't perfect. Then again, I've become accustomed to having cars specced as I please, and not "bulk" packages.

The way the "86" platform is set up in the USA is the FR-S is the base trim, the BRZ Premium the mid-trim, and BRZ Limited the top-trim level. I wish we could mix-n-match, but unfortunately we can't.

From the perspective I can deduce from your post, it sounds like taking an FR-S and swapping BRZ bumpers would be just as well for you. The projector halogens will be fantastic if you're not spoiled by HIDs, the manual HVAC, and non-Nav infotainment won't have you tearing your hair out.

Leather you can have retrofitted by getting in contact with Katzkin, but unfortunately the only thing you'll have to give up is the push-start...unless you buy the TRD aftermarket piece!


Cheers

[Zaku]

Oh really Tranzformer? I didn't know they were taking emails would tell me the address so I can email them too?

Sorry to hear your experience with your parent's car, I have a Forester and I'm quite happy with it. Everything works fine no problem with AC or anything maybe you should if you havent get your parent's car checked out.

I love the Type RA lol if they offered it, I jump on a list right now. Just don't do the Porsche mentality and charge us more .

[serialk11r]

I like the RA a lot, or even the R?, whichever one has the 2 speaker primitive stereo system. The OEM GPS nav / music player looks really nice, but it's really a waste of money as standalone systems are better, and a good smartphone does the job of the infotainment system anyways. I also want the 16" wheels, not 17".

[EBrake]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Wish they were bringing the RA version over. I emailed SOA and they said no plans for RA now but they would forward my email to the product managers as they like to hear what customers think. RA would have been perfect fit. Some say it would hurt Scion, but in Japan and other countries they have no problem with Toyota and Subaru offering similar trims.

The only thing I can think of is that Subaru and Toyota/Scion have some sort of written or unwritten agreement that they wont "directly" compete with each other? It would be kinda silly if that were the case.

What exactly is the RA? I've never heard of that... I'm assuming it is a stripped down version?

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Trims and packages have to do with cost. Subaru can't afford to have you option a car out like the Germans, where everything is optional and you can literally have it any way you want it.

I do agree that Subaru is going for a more mature market. You have to deal with that or get an FR-S, it's pretty simple. Is it optimal? No. I don't want NAV, but I'm getting the "Premium" trim. Do I want leather/Alcantara? Yes, but I can't justify the added expense of other features I really DON'T want.

I think that excuse works for stuff like push button start where you need a different center console and wiring, but stuff like Leather seats is simple "plug and play". I think it should also be an option instead of simply an incentive to buy the next trim up... but it should also be charged at a premium when ordered independently.

They already said they are trying to make this car somewhat "exclusive"... people would pay extra to get it how they want.

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I agree; the trim packages aren't perfect. Then again, I've become accustomed to having cars specced as I please, and not "bulk" packages.

The way the "86" platform is set up in the USA is the FR-S is the base trim, the BRZ Premium the mid-trim, and BRZ Limited the top-trim level. I wish we could mix-n-match, but unfortunately we can't.

From the perspective I can deduce from your post, it sounds like taking an FR-S and swapping BRZ bumpers would be just as well for you. The projector halogens will be fantastic if you're not spoiled by HIDs, the manual HVAC, and non-Nav infotainment won't have you tearing your hair out.

Leather you can have retrofitted by getting in contact with Katzkin, but unfortunately the only thing you'll have to give up is the push-start...unless you buy the TRD aftermarket piece!


Cheers

I'm not spoiled by most of that stuff, but I have first hand experience with the mediocrity of Subaru's features. HIDs would be nice, but meh... I don't do much night driving and have no problem with halogens.

Originally Posted by Zaku

Oh really Tranzformer? I didn't know they were taking emails would tell me the address so I can email them too?

Sorry to hear your experience with your parent's car, I have a Forester and I'm quite happy with it. Everything works fine no problem with AC or anything maybe you should if you havent get your parent's car checked out.

I love the Type RA lol if they offered it, I jump on a list right now. Just don't do the Porsche mentality and charge us more .

There's nothing wrong with the car, it's a great car overall, they just tell me half the features aren't worth a damn and I'd have to agree.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Oh really Tranzformer? I didn't know they were taking emails would tell me the address so I can email them too?

Sorry to hear your experience with your parent's car, I have a Forester and I'm quite happy with it. Everything works fine no problem with AC or anything maybe you should if you havent get your parent's car checked out.

I love the Type RA lol if they offered it, I jump on a list right now. Just don't do the Porsche mentality and charge us more .

Email is on Subaru website. You enter your response into the website and it sends it. I got a response back but not sure where that email goes if you reply back to it. Best use he website contact option. If you can't find it, let me know.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by EBrake

The built in Nav system is complete garbage, to the point of being virtually unusable.

Nav is different. It's in '12 Impreza/'12 WRX/'12 Forester

[EBrake]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Nav is different. It's in '12 Impreza/'12 WRX/'12 Forester

I know it's different, but does that mean better? Is the unit made by a different manufacturer? I'm under the assumption that it's using, more or less, the same software (but I may be wrong).

I'm pretty "tech savvy" and I can hardly figure out that Outback system. The sound quality isn't that good either.

I'm planning on going to the Subaru dealer in the next couple days, I'll see if I can play around with one of those you listed.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by EBrake

I know it's different, but does that mean better? Is the unit made by a different manufacturer? I'm under the assumption that it's using, more or less, the same software (but I may be wrong).

I can suggest at least skimming through cars101.com so that you can research any Subaru before posting speculations. It's a different manufacturer, completely different menu system, SD-based vs CD-based etc. Supports XM-live traffic and some other info, streams audio off smartphones etc.

Can't say it's better/worse since I only got to play with new one for a few minutes and I was okay with old style as well . It wasn't the best, but it worked okay.

[eikond]

Naturally price is the most important factor here... But given the assumption that we've all made regarding price (FRS under $24k, BRZ Prem around $25k, and BRZ ltd around $27k) then I think the Premium packaging is perfect.

I love in-dash NAV systems.. I would think that since most of the aftermarket companies and most of the car makes offer really good NAV systems now - that this Subie NAV player would be of pretty good quality.

I also love HID's.. The clear white light looks so nice when driving at night.. it lacks a little contrast to help you see the ice vs. the dry or wet road surface, but a decent set of fogs cures that.. You could easily add some fogs at low cost to the Premium model.. So, I'm really happy about the HID's being standard.

I like leather, but I don't like paying for it.. It's just never been worth the $2k upgrade that most cars charge to get it. It's hot to sit on in the summer, cold in the spring/fall/winter, and generally isn't more comfortable that cloth in my opinion. If I were planning to drive the BRZ in the winter, then I would miss the heated seats.. but that's not the case.

I don't care a bit about the push button start.. My wife has it in her Sonata and it's a decent novelty I guess, but the extra two seconds it takes to insert the key and press the button is no problem for me. I kind of like the feeling of turning the key and having the motor crank.. feels like I'm in control. The push button doesn't do that.

I don't care about the 17" alloys.. I'll be purchasing after-market wheels anyway.

I would like the spoiler.. That's the one feature in the LTD that I would like to have. But I suspect that a lot of people will buy the ltd and not want it.. so I'm expecting to be able to trade trunk lids and be satisfied.

PLUS.. on top of all that I've mentioned already.. I like the Subaru styling much more than the FRS.. something about the front bumper lines and curves.. I also strongly prefer the Subaru brand over the Scion brand.. something about the stereotypes that I have about owners of the two makes.. I definitely gravitate toward Subie over Scion.

All this makes the Premium perfect and well worth the upgrade from the FRS and not worth the upgrade to the Limited.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by EBrake

The only thing I can think of is that Subaru and Toyota/Scion have some sort of written or unwritten agreement that they wont "directly" compete with each other? It would be kinda silly if that were the case.

What exactly is the RA? I've never heard of that... I'm assuming it is a stripped down version?

The RA is the base trim of the BRZ in Japan (and elsewhere?). It's roughly on par with the 86 RC trim, although it comes standard with HID headlights and painted front/rear bumpers and the 86 does not. It sounds like the "premium" BRZ is equivelant to the R trim here, although neither the BRZ or 86 has standard Navigation (though it can be optioned onto the upper trims of either). It starts at roughly 2,050,000 yen which is roughly a thousand dollars more than the 86 RC trim.

Anyway something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the american BRZ seems to come standard equipped with the Torsen diff. That alone justifies a good amount of the price bump from the FR-S which I can't imagine does, then factor in the rest. If you have any interest in spirited driving, and I assume you do if you're buying this car, then the diff is something really worth paying extra for.

[OrbitalEllipses]

I believe Scion already stated the LSD is standard.