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Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) Everything related to the mechanical maintenance of the FR-S and BRZ


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Old 08-19-2017, 05:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Zentec View Post
This also segways in to the that it is a high rev high compression. No it's not a f1 as 18k rev and engine design is totally different. They also change there oil after every race. I know track people that change oil after each session.
Among other things, 12.5:1 is why I gave it points for being slightly exotic. 7400 RPM is a snoozefest.

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The oil cooler demand is that fact that high rpm and high Engine oil temp create load and once at operating tempature the 20 weight oil will thin out even more creating less protection and pressure and can increase engine damage. The increase in weight of an oil creates better protection under load. The point of an oil cooler is to cool it enough for the oil to maintain the protection and pressure. Depending on the oil cooler it will cool it around 9-10 degrees F.
I'm lost here. How does high rpm and high temp create load? What kind of load?

Your point about increasing the weight of the oil for towing a trailer is wrong. No offense intended. The engine is capable producing a fixed maximum force against the rod journals and distribute it along the mains. Hooking up a trailer or whatever doesn't change that.

Increasing the operating temperature of the engine or the oil, for whatever reason, is the only valid reason for fiddling with viscosity... ok, that and compensating for slutty journals, but that's it.

Unless you're talking about an engine designed specifically to shed heat through the oil, (think Suzuki GSX series engines) an oil cooler is there to preserve the engine by preserving the oil. Just like cooking oil, engine oil literally goes rancid with exposure to oxygen. The higher the temp, the quicker the oxidation. Keep it cool and it lasts longer.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:42 PM   #30
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Your post was helpful actually though. Thank you.
Totally welcome. I was guessing you were thinking "WTF, these guys still ragging on me?..." Just a little ribbing.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:59 PM   #31
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I've found that owners tend to be in two groups:

A large group that completely ignores the Owner's Manual.

And a smaller group that basically nitpicks every type of technical spec or documentation out there.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:05 PM   #32
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Right hand drive has nothing to do with anything. The Japanese OM has everything to do with it because these cars are Japanese engeneered cars. If you bothered to read the post link I quoted all the way. You would understand that the only reason they use 0w20 in the North,South American and CA is that the dealer/manufacture gets a price cut/car and incentive back for each car that is "fuel efficient". That was from the Subaru OM. If you actually know anything about oil even if you live in a snow belt ect a 0w30 or even a 5w30 is better for protection and cold weather start. Other than that the different brands of oil have different additives ect like different brands of gas. What is important is the winter and the weight like 91 octane is the minamum and recommend is 93. The brand is up to you after octane gas is all the same but with different additives ect for different brands.
So a Japanese engineered car means you have to read the Japanese Owner's Manual and take the others with a grain of salt?

You know what BMW recommends in their cars? Whatever the dealer sells, or a specific type of Castro.

You know what happens when you run an oil outside of those guidelines? Nothing. But your warranty coverage may be impacted in case the oil causes engine failure. But no one cares if you run a non-BMW approved oil.

From the thread you referenced and what you wrote:
Quote:
You will see that they suggest 0w20, 0w30,5w30, and Castrol SLX Professional SM 5w40(race oil). This Is an Subaru designed engine they know the tolerances. As for brand of oils personally I am considering Royal Purple or Eneos. I have looked at Red Line, Motul, Mobil 1. I have used Mobil 1 in my Subies for years. Royal Purple seems to have an higher friction capacity than others, although I have not seen the Eneos tested. The fact that its Japan's #1 oil and is formulated for Subies is why I'm leaning towards it.
So why are these oils better than every other 0W-20 on the market? Or are we just basing decisions on assumptions and not fact?
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:48 PM   #33
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I base my decisions on the fact that my assumptions are always right.
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:16 PM   #34
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So a Japanese engineered car means you have to read the Japanese Owner's Manual and take the others with a grain of salt?
Lol no you don't have to do anything. The point I made is Subaru engineered the tolerances up to 40 weight depending on your driving style and conditions. In the OM it says"0w20 is ideal for the best fuel economy!! " "an oil with a higher weight may be better suited if the car is operated at higher speeds or under extream load condition" this does not mean towing with the car it means tracking the car. The reason I went so far as to look up the information in the Japanese OM was knowing these cars have high tolerances I wanted to know what the Subaru engineers recommend because they did not mention them in our OM.


You know what BMW recommends in their cars? Yes I do it's Castro the weight can very between M models and regular. They also have oil changes ever 10k miles or once a year what ever comes first. I know I use to have one. Whatever the dealer sells, or a specific type of Castro. it's Castro

You know what happens when you run an oil outside of those guidelines? Nothing. Wrong! This is where you do not understand and you are making assumptions. The weight in the 0w20 is the 20 and that 20 weight is only measured when the oil is at operating tempature. Once oil is at temp with the 20 weight you can daily drive just fine in normal climate temps. If you take the car and track it with the 20 weight you can ruin the engine as in the OM says under high speed and load a heavier weight. As the 20 weight is for fuel effency.

But your warranty coverage may be impacted in case the oil causes engine failure. if you operate the car at high speeds on a track on the 20 weight yes you can because they can say it says here in the OM a heavier weight should be used. This is why I looked up the manufactures recommendation. Now if you put a 50 weight in yes you could because the tolerances are not set to Handel that high of weight.

But no one cares if you run a non-BMW approved oil. what do you mean by non BMW approved? If your talking about brand it doesn't really matter. But If you do not use the BMW approved grade usally grade 5 API ILSAC oil this is the oil stamp on the back of the oil container.

From the thread you referenced and what you wrote:


So why are these oils better than every other 0W-20 on the market? Or are we just basing decisions on assumptions and not fact?

Fact Royal Purple hps has a higher friction tolerances under the friction test and showed less mechanical sheering on the tested baring even to a race oil all tested were 5w30 oil. I also stated that I did not see Enoes.

My question to you is what grade octane do you put in your 86/brz and what brand do you use the most and why??
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:07 AM   #35
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:20 AM   #36
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Among other things, 12.5:1 is why I gave it points for being slightly exotic. 7400 RPM is a snoozefest. No not a snooze fest yes I would be so much happier @8or 9k personally I think it could handle it but don't know how reliable it will be that probably why they didn't take it there. On the other hand we're pretty close to the bore and stroke of the s2k.


I'm lost here. How does high rpm and high temp create load? What kind of load? high engine speed aka rpm and keeping it there on a track this is a mechanical load.

Your point about increasing the weight of the oil for towing a trailer is wrong. I never said towing in the quote above.

No offense intended. The engine is capable producing a fixed maximum force against the rod journals and distribute it along the mains. Hooking up a trailer or whatever doesn't change that. I would never hook up a trailer to an 86 as it says in the OM do not tow with this car Page 205.

Increasing the operating temperature of the engine or the oil, for whatever reason, is the only valid reason for fiddling with viscosity... ok, that and compensating for slutty journals, but that's it.
No!! 20 weight fuel effency for daily driving. Going to a 30 weight you lose about 1-3% mpg but gain protection. For me protection is better than a couple mpg.


Unless you're talking about an engine designed specifically to shed heat through the oil, (think Suzuki GSX series engines) an oil cooler is there to preserve the engine by preserving the oil. Not so for cars. The point as I stated of an oil cooler is to keep the oil from getting to hot by keeping the oil at desired temps. You can install the thermal plate that will start cooling the oil at a certain point. As I said the point of this is so your oil dose not get to hot that it starts to thin out and you lose protection. The plus is when you maintain your oil temp your oil pressure stabilizes as well which keeps you protected. You should have your oil temp and engine coolent temp fairly close. The main point is not to prolong oil life but it can do so as it dose not over heat the oil.

Just like cooking oil, engine oil literally goes rancid with exposure to oxygen. The higher the temp, the quicker the oxidation. wrong and partially true. Regular oil is like this although the tempature is a bigger factor. But fully synthetic oils that we use in our cars. Synthetic motor oils have a higher tolerance to heat and aging. The performance characteristics of these synthetic lubricants can be custom-designed to exceed the performance limits of petroleum-based motor oils _ and their use can possibly increase the life of your engine. If you over heat your cooking oil it loses its lubercation and thins out same as a car. Now if you go further and heat it to its flash point boom flames now stuff gets black. If you exceed the temp for the weight of the oil in a car you loose oil pressure and protection if you exceed the temp for syn oil your going to have a ton of problems lol.

Keep it cool and it lasts longer.


Well yes and no. Remeber if you stabilize temp and pressure of engine oil you will increase life of your engine. To stablelize temp you need a oil cooler by not exceeding the oil temp for the weight you will stabilize oil pressure. This will improve oil life and engine life. Plain and simple the only reason our books say 0w20 is for max cover of cold climates and for fuel economy!!
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:24 AM   #37
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I base my decisions on the fact that my assumptions are always right.
Ya but when you assum you make an ass out of you and umtion lol umtion dosent like it !!
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:38 AM   #38
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I've found that owners tend to be in two groups:

A large group that completely ignores the Owner's Manual.
Ok I can understand this. You must be in this group.

And a smaller group that basically nitpicks every type of technical spec or documentation out there.

I haven't seen to many of this group.

Me I'm the type that reads the whole OM and when I can't find an important answer I don't expect some one at a dealer to spoon feed me a trained response I ask people who I trust to point me in the direction. I don't make guess or assumptions I use data to figure it out. It also helps to have a family memeber that works as the chief Engeineer for TRD racing here in the USA.
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:55 AM   #39
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I'm done. The bullshit has gotten way too deep. I don't do well with it.


That seat taken?
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:07 AM   #40
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I'm done. The bullshit has gotten way too deep. I don't do well with it.


That seat taken?
Nah, that seat is yours.

I'm feeling bad that it appears that this "oil thing" got ignited again, just because I was funnen with ol @Choaskaze 's post .....


OK, you and I will sit back ...... and see if @mav1178 wishes to carry on with @Zentec.

Did I ever tell you about this crappy Sears lawn mower I had for 25 years, that I never liked, so, I never changed the oil in it .... ??

It just wouldn't quit running, so I gave it to my son-in-law because his broke down. It was still running when he parked it .......


humfrz

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Old 08-20-2017, 02:19 AM   #41
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lool, what

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Depending on the oil cooler it will cool it around 9-10 degrees F.
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Old 08-22-2017, 02:59 PM   #42
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My question to you is what grade octane do you put in your 86/brz and what brand do you use the most and why??
If I still had it, I would put in whatever 91 octane I wish. No brand preference but since I can get Arco prices at Costco using my Visa card, I prefer to go there. But the lines get long so I often go to the 76 by my house as they have decent prices with payment via credit card.

I could put in lower octane but due to the high compression engine it won't perform as well. If I wanted to run 87 all day I'd do an engine rebuild and drop the compression down to 10.5 or so.
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