Header thread #9001

[sw20kosh]

ACE

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

ACE

I'm waiting for them to announce their new products before I buy anything.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

I'm waiting for them to announce their new products before I buy anything.

The new product lineup will add to the existing lineup; nothing will be superseded

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The new product lineup will add to the existing lineup; nothing will be superseded

I just sent you guys an email about a Type A/350.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Cole

If you're spending that cash, why not go with the Holy Grail of headers and get the Ace? It's a known quantity and has proven super gains

A very late reply on this point, but the counterargument is that it's difficult to find a medium between absolute power gains and sound quality.

One problem so far is the lack of a decent front pipe setup that allows for complete freedom in choosing catless header w/ any exhaust of your choice. If you don't care about sound, that's fine, but many (young) people nowadays live in apartment or condo complexes that ban loud noises that a catless header may bring.

I am trying to help find solutions. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103125

-alex

[Cole]

Originally Posted by mav1178

A very late reply on this point, but the counterargument is that it's difficult to find a medium between absolute power gains and sound quality.

One problem so far is the lack of a decent front pipe setup that allows for complete freedom in choosing catless header w/ any exhaust of your choice. If you don't care about sound, that's fine, but many (young) people nowadays live in apartment or condo complexes that ban loud noises that a catless header may bring.

I am trying to help find solutions. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103125

-alex

And where did OP mention sound in the original post?

Good for you that you're trying to find out sound levels and shit. I don't really care to be honest. The way to go about that is get whatever you want from the header to FP, then get a quiet catback.

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by Cole

And where did OP mention sound in the original post?

Good for you that you're trying to find out sound levels and shit. I don't really care to be honest. The way to go about that is get whatever you want from the header to FP, then get a quiet catback.

^ this!

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Cole

And where did OP mention sound in the original post?

Good for you that you're trying to find out sound levels and shit. I don't really care to be honest. The way to go about that is get whatever you want from the header to FP, then get a quiet catback.

No one said he mentioned sound, but we're not building all-out track cars.

His original question was why there was so little information. The cost is one reason... but again, absolute power gains is not everything.

As for your point on quiet catbacks, I'll be testing some combinations of quiet catbacks that would sound horrible w/ catless headers.

Source: I used to have a quiet catback until I put the Berk front pipe on the car. With a stock header.

-alex

[Cole]

Originally Posted by mav1178

No one said he mentioned sound, but we're not building all-out track cars.

His original question was why there was so little information. The cost is one reason... but again, absolute power gains is not everything.

As for your point on quiet catbacks, I'll be testing some combinations of quiet catbacks that would sound horrible w/ catless headers.

Source: I used to have a quiet catback until I put the Berk front pipe on the car. With a stock header.

-alex

What's your point here? I don't get why or how you came to these conclusions.

All I said was going with a known quantity is probably better than something unknown.

Sure, we aren't building all out track cars, or chasing every last HP/Tq. But, if you're spending the same kind of money as the "best" header on the market, why the hell wouldn't you go with that?

I truly do not give a flying fuck about the point you're making. Coming up with a "counter argument" about something that wasn't even mentioned in the first place. By all means, carry on with your sound testing. Myself, and many others will continue to buy the parts that we want to, and make sacrifices to have them.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

After reading through the compilation threads and using the handy dandy search button I could not find information on Apexi's header/over pipe/front pipe kit. (Part #149-T014J) Has anyone used it? Does it actually exist? For the price it seems like something I wouldn't mind experimenting with but there has to be a reason I haven't found so much as a youtube video of it in action.

Originally Posted by Cole

If you're spending that cash, why not go with the Holy Grail of headers and get the Ace? It's a known quantity and has proven super gains

since Cole doesn't give a flying fuck about this, I just realized why the Apex'i header costs so much.

The entire header is certified as street legal in Japan. By that, I mean they have subjected both the ZC6 and ZN6 chassis for emissions testing. Each kit comes with the certificate as tested for both cars. Just spent 10 minutes carefully reading the instructions that it is supplied with...

The kit comes with an O2 extension, so there is an O2 sensor before AND after the catalytic converter on the front pipe. A secondary wideband O2 bung is welded on the header and a plug is supplied.

Obviously this does not apply to US market nor do most people that want to be unrestricted by header options, but it is definitely different.

As for what is different about this vs Ace: this header is certified 100% for street use in Japan, bolt-on as-is without any need for ECU tune. The Ace header is not, primarily because there is no before/after catalytic placement for the O2 sensor and that will trigger an ECU fault code.

To each their own.

-alex

[churchx]

So there is chance for this header to be one that should never trigger CEL?
edit
Hmm, from googled up pics and specs i somewhat doubt that single HF cat in frontpipe will be sufficient and won't confuse stock tune for CELs to never happen. So wondering what is included in that certification.

[ryoma]

Originally Posted by churchx

So there is chance for this header to be one that should never trigger CEL?
edit
Hmm, from googled up pics and specs i somewhat doubt that single HF cat in frontpipe will be sufficient and won't confuse stock tune for CELs to never happen. So wondering what is included in that certification.

the cat in the front pipe does nothing in regards to triggering the CEL. the CEL only triggers because the computer reads that the rear O2 sensor in the header is reading the same as the front O2 sensor, thus making the ECU think that the cat in the header failed. at least, that is how I understand it. the ECU has no idea about how well the 2nd cat (in the front pipe) works since there is no way to measure it due to no O2 sensor in the front pipe.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ryoma

the cat in the front pipe does nothing in regards to triggering the CEL. the CEL only triggers because the computer reads that the rear O2 sensor in the header is reading the same as the front O2 sensor, thus making the ECU think that the cat in the header failed. at least, that is how I understand it. the ECU has no idea about how well the 2nd cat (in the front pipe) works since there is no way to measure it due to no O2 sensor in the front pipe.

I'll see if I can dig up photos in the near future, but basically the Apex'i header has a 4-2-1 design with the first O2 sensor immediately after the 2-1 collector.

The second O2 sensor is placed downstream after the cat, so it can still verify before/after.

I should note that the second O2 sensor placement has a much smaller opening, similar to those O2 extension inserts that cheat ECU detection. I am assuming that this cat is less efficient than factory and there is still a possibility of ECU code being triggered.

According to the copy of testing included with the header, the setup is about 2x as much emissions as factory at cold startup, and about 50% of factory emissions when warmed up.

-alex