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Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum The place to start for the Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 | GT86


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Old 06-06-2014, 08:34 PM   #435
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The twins are still holding close to their anticipated/projected annual sales, 20,000 for the FRS and 8000 for the BRZ per year. Over the first 2 years of sales the FRS is slightly less and the BRZ slightly over. That's still good sales numbers. This will help keep this car in production.

I wonder how the sales break down regionally.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:55 PM   #436
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One thing many discuss this and that to bring up many features to compare & Vs the twin .... but then forget about the main difference of the twin is the Boxer Flat-4 engine w/ COG at the knee high and behind the front axle. "The physically of the twin" make the twin is a very unique DNA that why it has different handling and balance car. So if car out there is not from Subaru or Porsche then it is hard to achieve this layout to compare to the feel of this car. It might be closed but it's not exactly ! Here is my few main essential features listed in order that was the reason I bought this car for DD compare to so many others on the market.

1) Boxer Flat-4 Low center gravity
2) New smooth curve body style & look
3) Precise weighted steering feel
4) Rear wheel drive ( Just pure sporty feel for me over other awd )
5) Light weight.

Last edited by TRD_86; 06-06-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:25 PM   #437
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One thing many discuss this and that to bring up many features to compare & Vs the twin .... but then forget about the main difference of the twin is the Boxer Flat-4 engine w/ COG at the knee high and behind the front axle. "The physically of the twin" make the twin is a very unique DNA that why it has different handling and balance car. So if car out there is not from Subaru or Porsche then it is hard to achieve this layout to compare to the feel of this car. It might be closed but it's not exactly ! Here is my few main essential features listed in order that was the reason I bought this car for DD compare to so many others on the market.

1) Boxer Flat-4 Low center gravity
2) New smooth curve body style & look
3) Precise weighting steering feel
4) Rear wheel drive ( Just pure sporty feel for me over other awd )
5) Light weight.
and CoG is still not as low as the Prius, right? Engine configuration is not everything.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:58 PM   #438
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and CoG is still not as low as the Prius, right? Engine configuration is not everything.
You're conflating CG height (CG) and coefficient of drag (Cd).

FR-S has a lower CG height. Prius has a lower Cd.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:16 PM   #439
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^ At 18.1" is lower than many other combustion engine cars in this segment. Prius and many other hybrid cars have battery added to the layout which is a different class for comparison here. You can compare Prius to other hybrid cars.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:38 PM   #440
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^ At 18.1" is lower than many other combustion engine cars in this segment. Prius and many other hybrid cars have battery added to the layout which is a different class for comparison here. You can compare Prius to other hybrid cars.
Even with a battery pack (as you said, essentially low-mounted ballast), the Prius still has a higher CG height than the FR-S.

You can calculate this using the publicly available SSF figure of the Prius at 1.33.

SSF = track width / (2 * CG)

2005 Prius:
SSF = 1.33
track width = 58.8"
CG height = 22.1"

FR-S
CG height = 18.1"
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:09 AM   #441
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I know twin has 18.1" cog which is below the knee . So twin has cog way lower than prius. I agree prius has lower Cd drag coefficient per data specs out there.
Flat engine block for sure contribute big factor to the layout for other related components.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:32 AM   #442
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Even with a battery pack (as you said, essentially low-mounted ballast), the Prius still has a higher CG height than the FR-S.

You can calculate this using the publicly available SSF figure of the Prius at 1.33.

SSF = track width / (2 * CG)

2005 Prius:
SSF = 1.33
track width = 58.8"
CG height = 22.1"

FR-S
CG height = 18.1"
I was talking about "Prius" as Prius C. Yes, it's a hybrid car, but there are many other way to have lower CoG without having a boxer engine.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:41 AM   #443
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I was talking about "Prius" as Prius C. Yes, it's a hybrid car, but there are many other way to have lower CoG without having a boxer engine.


Except a boxer engine is the only engine that offers the lowest CoG possible. Any other engine in the 86 will raise the CoG.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:41 AM   #444
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Except a boxer engine is the only engine that offers the lowest CoG possible. Any other engine in the 86 will raise the CoG.
Rotary?
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:45 AM   #445
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Rotary?

Nope.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:53 AM   #446
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Nope.
Let me try again. I'm not talking about 86 specifically when it comes to engine configuration. I'm talking about cars in general. LFA with V10 has lower CoG than FR-S, but yeah it's 12 times more expensive. I'm just saying there are many ways for a car to achieve CoG without having boxer engine.
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:12 AM   #447
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Let me try again. I'm not talking about 86 specifically when it comes to engine configuration. I'm talking about cars in general. LFA with V10 has lower CoG than FR-S, but yeah it's 12 times more expensive. I'm just saying there are many ways for a car to achieve CoG without having boxer engine.

Yeah, let me try again. In all those cases, the CoG would be lower if you did use a boxer engine instead.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:36 AM   #448
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Yeah, let me try again. In all those cases, the CoG would be lower if you did use a boxer engine instead.
Electric cars don't need boxer to have lower CoG, and it will get lower if the manufacturer like Tesla wants to.

Edit: Nevermind if we talk about combustion engine. Though not every car is designed to be applicable with boxer engine, thus not every car will get ideal CoG with Boxer.
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