CNY Thread

[Hardrock4445]

Are you going to run the "enduro" race on the 20th?

[Takumi788]

How was the fairgrounds? Wicked jealous i had to miss it. Thats the only good autox event in CNY.

I'm headed down to NYST to check it out and do a track day on the 5th. Looks like a solid track and its pretty cheap to run the day.

[Hardrock4445]

Was a good course. Little bit of everything and was a fast course. Used the whole lot and times were running 43-50 seconds

[Takumi788]

Originally Posted by Arigh

Despite being a good course, I was a bit disappointed with how poorly it was run. Whole lot of timing issues, generator ran out of fuel, safety stewards didn't do anything about someone who was running with windows up because it was broken until a PCA instructor got on the radio and bitched them out, and all of this added up to only getting 5 runs. 5 runs in itself, pretty bad, but it was split up 2-3, so you didn't get to fully learn the course in the morning, instead you were still doing that in the afternoon.

I'll still probably go to other CNY events since that was my first one and they were overwhelmed by the amount of people there. But if another is that poorly run, I'll probably just stick to WNY and FLR.

What courses are good with the WNY and FLR regions? I'm a track junky and have always been disappointed with the auto cross around here.

[Takumi788]

Originally Posted by Arigh

Honestly, the closest to tracking a car I've been is earlier this year running on the Cherry Valley Motorsports gokart track in a miata, but as far as autocrosses go WNY and FLR run decent autocross events.

I just moved up here from NJ, where I was running with NNJR, which is an incredibly well-run area (6+ runs every time) with huge turn outs (150-200 drivers) and a huge lot (Metlife Stadium's parking lot), so I've been pretty unimpressed by smaller clubs up here... But CNY really showed how poorly an event can be run, which made WNY/FLR look awesome by comparison.

Wow, I had no idea CNY was THAT bad. Welcome to NY btw. You need to drive Watkins Glen. It will change your life. lol.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by Arigh

safety stewards didn't do anything about someone who was running with windows up because it was broken until a PCA instructor got on the radio and bitched them out

Easy, killer.

I'm certainly not a fan of windows up for a run (rain/dry/hot/cold/nuclear winter/don't care), and in fact find it to be dangerous. However, I was floored to find that, in the 2014 SCCA Solo Rulebook, you'll find exactly zero references to window position for a run. Silly, to be sure, but there it is.

So, while definitely not a smart idea, not actually against the rules. It is, ultimately, the Solo Safety Steward's call. Which that PCA guy...ahem...was. not. If one wants to be the hero about concerns like this, such a clearly well-informed individual would know whose responsibility it was and if they felt someone was derelict in their duties, they would have sought out the SSS/event chair. But that guy didn't, did he? Just kinda grabbed a radio and shot his mouth off about rules that, as it turns out, he didn't actually know.

The local leadership (I'm not one) does appreciate the feedback, though, and is trying to turn that feedback into useful and worthwhile items to address.

Didn't know we had a CNY thread. I was busy getting all of my misinformation in the C Stock and Street Discussions...

[Hardrock4445]

I'm looking forward to the "enduro" event. I wish it was a cone course and not cherry valley. But still will be a lot of fun to watch and run.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by Hardrock4445

I'm looking forward to the "enduro" event. I wish it was a cone course and not cherry valley. But still will be a lot of fun to watch and run.

It's a good time. ~2 minute runs. You'd be amazed how hard it can be to count to four/however many laps we do this year.

The other interesting twist they put on it is the day/night double-header. CVMP has NO lighting, and we hold off on night runs until it's high-beams and light pods time.

[Hardrock4445]

Well the web site for CNY, shows runs to be appox 4 minutes. 2laps is roughly 60 sec. So 8 laps. Sounds like it will be a blast.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by Arigh

It wasn't until the second run when there was no response, and the person was still running with the windows up, that people dropped the politeness.

There is the possibility that the issue was in fact addressed by said officials and that "play on" was the outcome. Not having clearly communicated that back to Start is an operational problem for us to nail down. While I don't agree with the ruling, exactly zero policies/rules/regulations/insurance requirements were violated by that determination.

Originally Posted by Arigh

Whether it's the safety steward's call or not is irrelevant when it is collectively considered unsafe and your course workers don't feel comfortable with a decision being made.

I'll have to disagree on that one. It's the only relevant matter. In general, you've noticed that the entire sport is slanted towards inclusion. We'd like to try to convert novices into lifers (even the clueless ones - I know everyone on here had their shit 10,000% together at their first event). For that reason, and many others (like everyone having their own opinion, both supported and unsupported by rules), we make it difficult for others to decide if someone else gets to participate. We all get to decide for ourselves. Only a very short list gets to decide for someone else. One way bad events happen is when everyone tries to run the show (especially when everyone tries to do it their own divergent way), because then, frequently, no one is actually running the show.

There does need to be a singular voice on these matters, and since we can't get 80+ people to agree, we use specifically and officially trained people to make that judgement, and when they make the call, the insurance stays in effect. This way, there's some on-the-spot finality to a disagreement over a phantom rule. We don't get to make it up as we go along anymore than anyone else. And lord knows I've disagreed with some SSS decisions.

Originally Posted by Arigh

And I actually have spoken with one of the leadership through PMs and feel I gave some legitimately useful feedback, instead of the senseless bitching that I did immediately after the event - after driving over an hour and a half, I felt a bit burned due to what even he admitted was a lackluster event.

Understandable that you were disappointed in the event. We were as well, and were talking about all of it - including this driver exclusion incident - the very next morning on our semi-unofficial local forum. I know the Event Chair PM'd you. Then he PM'd me on our local forum looking for suggestions. And that's how I found this jewel of a thread. We'll have to go back-and-forth internally a bit more on this, as I might have overwhelmed/severely unloaded on him.

NNJR levels of slickness in event operations is not something I've seen repeated anywhere else I've been. Ever. However, that shouldn't be stopping us from making improvements. The difference between where we are now, and that level is not really any single thing, but rather is a long-ish list of small things. Some should be relatively easy to get going, others will be more like shooting sacred cows, and then defiling the corpses. Change ain't easy.

Meantime, PSA for folks unhappy with the window up/down thing (which is completely understandable): Write that letter to the SEB. Bring the decision down from farther up, because we're not the only region that isn't beholden to rules which don't exist.

Btw, comment from an FLR member:

The only time I've ever caught flak for having a window rolled up was at a Glen event *shrug*

[Hardrock4445]

So, um yeah..... Any good meets coming up 4th of July weekend?

[Auzburner]

Originally Posted by Hardrock4445

So, um yeah..... Any good meets coming up 4th of July weekend?

I'll be in town this weekend for a wedding. If something happens outside of my obligations, I may be able to make it!

[Takumi788]

Gotta check out cars and coffee Saturday at 8am at the route 57 Wegmans. Beautiful muscle cars, tuners and a few exotics.

[TrqlessWonder]

Somewhere between and ...

Originally Posted by Arigh

This discussion is ridiculous. We spoke before the event about the already
apparent organizational issues that were going on, and how slow things were
going. You were coming from the same point of view, and you told me that this
was why you usually traveled to other regions for their events too. Now
that we're on the internet, though, you for some reason feel the need to act
like the hero and defend your now home region.

Yes, who isn't frustrated when an event takes longer than we think it should to get started? Yes, it very well may have been related to organizational issues. The vigourous defense is because I'd still rather help them resolve their issues, particularly as with all of the feedback (including this - public embarrassment does have its uses) seems to have hit home for them. Me being frustrated != Wanting the region to fail. You are not the only one to contact the event chair with lots of ideas. And they genuinely are grateful for that, in all of the forms in which it arrived.

Now, for the "usually" part? Nuh-uh. No, sir. What I told you is that they might not be my first choice on weekends when competing events are going on, and shame on me if I didn't make it clear that that is the result of more than just operational snafus. Off weekends are always an other-region possibility (usually NNJR, sometimes MoHud). As they should be for anyone who is serious about upping their game. However, in three seasons, I've missed 2 CNY events. Night event 2012 (because I wanted to go drinking instead) and Microds, this year. I'm not a fan of the Microds track for the same reasons I wasn't a fan of Englishtown towards the end. The pavement has seen better days (esp compared to RWS), and the lack of variety inherent in go-kart tracks does leave me looking for challenges elsewhere. And I certainly wouldn't want my last event before a National Tour to be a coneless autocross. Please be more careful about the opinions you ascribe to me online.

Originally Posted by Arigh

Someone asked how the event was, I was honest in my assessment that it was
shitty. Even your cochair admitted it had its issues and understands where I was
coming from (even if he doesn't appreciate the bad press).

We might not like the format of the feedback, but remember, you were PM'd by the chair, and he did want to know more specifically than "You guys suck." He's actually making a concerted effort to turn the bad press into something helpful for the region. If we make the region better, you have more places to run. I'm pretty sure that's a good thing.

Originally Posted by Arigh

I am not going to argue with you about rules, it's irrelevant and it derails this thread even more than it has been. You have for some reason fixated on the windows thing, which was a minor point to me. I see it as a large safety oversight, you don't. We disagree and that's fine.

Because that's the only part I commented on. It's the only part I'm interested in. And it's a bigger issue than windows. (My comments on the rest of the event went direct to the chair.) The point of me jumping into this at all was
1 - To correct you, and those watching, about an incorrect (although common) understanding of the rules. I was dumbstruck to find out it isn't a rule, but that's the point, someone in a position to pass down a decision actually consulted the rulebook prior to giving the driver the green light. I don't like it either, but it wasn't the wrong decision. I later offered a suggestion for those that don't like that rule, to write to the rules-making folk.

2 - To point out that an unauthorized individual made a unilateral decision for the club that wasn't his to make in the first place and isn't supported by the rules. And that is wrong, no matter how you dress it up. That likely cost the club any hope of converting that individual (windows don't stay broken forever) into a regular. And the turned-away driver likely has some choice words for our club, now too. I don't think it's unreasonable to be displeased with that.

3 - That, and to let you know (and those watching the thread) that those comments were read by your ultimate target audience, and seem to have left an impression upon them. Improvements should be on the horizon, but we're not going to get all the way to perfect in time for the enduro.

Personally, I think the bad press will prove helpful. Not the way we'd choose to portray ourselves, but ultimately helpful. (Not kidding in the least).


and all that.

Good luck at the Holbert.