How to deal with cheaters?

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by renfield90

SMH...it's like some of you were never noobs or something. Healthy, passionate competition in novice categories is good for the future of the sport. If there are rules about what you can and can't do in novice they should be followed, not laughed at.

Once upon a time, you sucked too. Don't forget that.

Hey, I suck now, thank you very much.


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[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by renfield90

SMH...it's like some of you were never noobs or something. Healthy, passionate competition in novice categories is good for the future of the sport. If there are rules about what you can and can't do in novice they should be followed, not laughed at.

Once upon a time, you sucked too. Don't forget that.

I still suck. Doesn't make me care anymore or less about novice class rule violations. Serious autocrossers (and I know a number of nats winners) are always funny to me with their serious take on autocross which is a sport I've always done purely for fun and to bridge W2W racing, which I also do purely for fun. Becoming so serious about it makes it something I don't want to do as much, or at all.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I still suck. Doesn't make me care anymore or less about novice class rule violations.

....of course! Why would you care about something that doesn't concern you! That would be a complete waste of your time and nerves.







While you certainly don't have to take the events seriously, you are still obligated to follow the rules, which I assume you do, because your participation and adherence to said rules is what allows those who take the events seriously to have a foundation for said seriousness.

And in doing so, you have, even somewhat, a responsibility to uphold this integrity and bring it to attention any rule violations you are aware of, be they intentional or accidental.


Self-policing is a very important part of any grassroots motorsport event, you don't get to "not care" with impunity, you must, to some degree, care and provide input, especially around novices who should be told early on, and reminded often, the importance of abiding by the honor system.


This year I've caught a number of misclassifications and various calculation errors in our series' results. Had this not been me, it MIGHT have been someone else, but I wasn't going to take that chance, who knows, maybe I was the only one noticed.

[justint5387]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I still suck. Doesn't make me care anymore or less about novice class rule violations. Serious autocrossers (and I know a number of nats winners) are always funny to me with their serious take on autocross which is a sport I've always done purely for fun and to bridge W2W racing, which I also do purely for fun. Becoming so serious about it makes it something I don't want to do as much, or at all.

Not sure on the points you are making. If the guy is cheating then he is cheating.

Just because you are serious doesn't mean you are not having fun. Competition is part of the fun.

[Biggins]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I still suck. Doesn't make me care anymore or less about novice class rule violations. Serious autocrossers (and I know a number of nats winners) are always funny to me with their serious take on autocross which is a sport I've always done purely for fun and to bridge W2W racing, which I also do purely for fun. Becoming so serious about it makes it something I don't want to do as much, or at all.

Everyone has their own perspective in what they want out of it. I autocross for fun but I treat it like any other sport I played growing up... I play to win. There's also the social element where I've met many new friends autocrossing... so it's turned into a cross of just "hanging out" and doing all I can to win. That doesn't happen often, but I have more fun when I do well.

I hoped autocross may be a bridge to W2W, but the costs for that are on another stratosphere for me, so I'll be "stuck" driving around parking lots and airfields.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by justint5387

Not sure on the points you are making. If the guy is cheating then he is cheating.

Just because you are serious doesn't mean you are not having fun. Competition is part of the fun.

One, we don't even know if the guy in question was cheating. The groups I run with allow R comps in Novice classes.


Secondly, intentional cheating and accidental cheating (which I have been guilty of when I didn't know and asked the organizers to place me) are two different things.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Everyone has their own perspective in what they want out of it. I autocross for fun but I treat it like any other sport I played growing up... I play to win. There's also the social element where I've met many new friends autocrossing... so it's turned into a cross of just "hanging out" and doing all I can to win. That doesn't happen often, but I have more fun when I do well.

I hoped autocross may be a bridge to W2W, but the costs for that are on another stratosphere for me, so I'll be "stuck" driving around parking lots and airfields.

Yeah I basically autocross for the social element. I usually run in faster classes that I belong to not win. I don't want to take the points and stickers/trophies from those who actually care. I run all seasons now for autocrossing to really ensure that I don't win and to have a hell of a fun time throwing the car around. Not even good all seasons.. on a lightish car with 270whp. I suggest all autocrossers to try the combination!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

....of course! Why would you care about something that doesn't concern you! That would be a complete waste of your time and nerves.







While you certainly don't have to take the events seriously, you are still obligated to follow the rules, which I assume you do, because your participation and adherence to said rules is what allows those who take the events seriously to have a foundation for said seriousness.

And in doing so, you have, even somewhat, a responsibility to uphold this integrity and bring it to attention any rule violations you are aware of, be they intentional or accidental.


Self-policing is a very important part of any grassroots motorsport event, you don't get to "not care" with impunity, you must, to some degree, care and provide input, especially around novices who should be told early on, and reminded often, the importance of abiding by the honor system.


This year I've caught a number of misclassifications and various calculation errors in our series' results. Had this not been me, it MIGHT have been someone else, but I wasn't going to take that chance, who knows, maybe I was the only one noticed.

I'm really not obligated to follow the rules, and often don't. I just make sure I won't win when doing so. I don't build my cars for an autocross class... never have and never will. Getting personal enjoyment out of the cars is something I care about FAR more than building to a class so when I break the rules I class myself in a class I have no chance of winning. Or should have no chance of winning anyways.


I agree no one should cheat to win, but this is a novice who probably didn't even know any better. It should have been addressed to him directly IMO to find out the full story. I don't police cars and classing because I quite simply don't care. It doesn't affect my enjoyment during my runs. I find it far more enjoyable to not worry about crap like that. Then again I almost never have a run without a passenger so you can see how much I care about being competitive.

[Silver Ignition]

a) Check the rules for you region, it may be allowed.

b) It's novice class. While it is good to have that competitive spirit, this class is meant to put all the new guys together to learn, get instructor runs, talk to the pro guys for pointers, etc. The point of Novice class is to learn yourself and your car. In two years you're gonna replace the "3rd Place Novice Class" award with a very proud "8th Place Street/STX Class" award anyways because it means more.

c) Make friends FIRST before you make enemies. Even if a guy is cheating, use it as motivation to get faster, it'll be more sweeter when you're faster...he's a novice too, remember? Make friends with and talk to the fast guys, send them GoPro videos to critique your driving, LEARN. He's not learning nearly as much on slicks as you will on the stock Michelins...