First Drive Review of Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S Mule! [Car magazine]

[Dimman]

Someone care to explain the Torsen diff talk? He said that it's not 'mechanical' which is incorrect, and that the 'R' may have a 'mechanical' diff. WTF is he talking about?

I can only think of the following diff types (excluding open):

Viscous (Nissan likes these, but I hear their response is weird.)
Torsen (which is, I believe, a trademark for a geared/helical LSD, and I'll group locker-types in here too)
Clutch-pack (I believe Posi on the domestics are clutch packs, as are the non-TTR Mk3 Supra turbos, and aftermarket ones like Kaaz and OS Giken)
Electronic types like Honda's ATTS on the SH Prelude and Ferrari's e-diff, which are similar to electronic torque-biasing center diffs in the STI, etc...

But I flipped through the Lexus site, checking out the IS and they mention this:

Pre-Torque Semi Limited Slip Differential

http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience...5C2M&year=2012

Plus the mention that the Aisin trans is in use in existing Toyota products makes me think that they come from the IS250. 6-speed manual is available and it has a rear 'semi limited slip' diff.

Thoughts?

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Someone care to explain the Torsen diff talk? He said that it's not 'mechanical' which is incorrect, and that the 'R' may have a 'mechanical' diff. WTF is he talking about?

Here's what I said about it on the previous page... basically Torsen becomes an open diff if a wheel is lifted. Clutch pack types will not have this problem.

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Basically if you are in an extremely tight turn and lift a wheel, you won't get power until the wheel touches down again, similar to an open diff. As long as you have some traction on the wheel that is slipping it will transfer some percentage of the torque to the opposite wheel, meaning when you are powering out of a turn the power will shift to the outside wheel. You can "fake" it by pulling up the ebrake, not so much to lock up the wheels but enough to give some resitance for the diff to push against. A mechanical locking diff will actually sense differences between the shaft speeds and apply a certain amount of lock to try and equalize them, so it will still work if one wheel is lifted.

Originally Posted by dimman

Electronic types like Honda's ATTS on the SH Prelude and Ferrari's e-diff, which are similar to electronic torque-biasing center diffs in the STI, etc...

STI has a clutch type diff in the center and viscous in the front and rear (AP Suretrac on the front in some years). E-diffs are different, they apply the brakes to move torque around.

[WingsofWar]

hmmm torsen is mechanical,

but its funny because when I hear "mechanical LSD" I automatically think clutch packs, not any other LSD forms.

Im glad its torsen, I REALLLLY like the performance torsen gives compared to some cars that had clutch packs.

Id rather have a torsen than a shitty clutch pack LSD....but id love to have a well designed clutch pack LSD over the rest.

[nogaroblues4]

So what kind of Diff does he m3 have?

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by nogaroblues4

So what kind of Diff does he m3 have?

Clutch type. When people refer to a "mechanical" LSD they are usually referring to clutch type, because it is the only type AFAIK that can lock 100%.

[switchlanez]

So will the R type have a torsen or clutch-type? (I might have missed it.) Which has Toyota implemented from the factory in its past cars?

And the debate about torque... you get pushed back in your seat directly due to acceleration (this is simple intuition); indirectly due to torque. The Prius delivers its max torque instantly. So from a stop why don't I get slammed to my seat? Because torque is but one factor in the acceleration equation; the Prius' other acceleration factors are meager. The Prius can consistently haul a heavy load without much hiccup from 0 mph instantly (THAT'S torque) but not quickly (that's acceleration). serialk11er got it right.

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

So will the R type have a torsen or clutch-type? (I might have missed it.) Which has Toyota implemented from the factory in its past cars?

And the debate about torque... you get pushed back in your seat directly due to acceleration (this is simple intuition); indirectly due to torque. The Prius delivers its max torque instantly. So from a stop why don't I get slammed to my seat? Because torque is but one factor in the acceleration equation; the Prius' other acceleration factors are meager. The Prius can consistently haul a heavy load without much hiccup from 0 mph instantly (THAT'S torque) but not quickly (that's acceleration). serialk11er got it right.

LOL a prius is controlled by a computer to not give you maximum tq at initial throttle input from a stop. An electric motor's tq is 100% available at any RPM. You would have a bunch of tire smoking priuses running around if they didn't limit tq delivery to a gradually increasing curve. LOL or even better could you imagine a prius coming in for warranty work for snapping an axle cuz of wheel hop? haha. Get out of the performance car forum with your hybrids lol having fun with the smilies!

On another note:
My hybrid burns gas and rubber, my seats are upholstered in baby seal hides, and my shift knob is the horn off a unicorn. Eat your heart out green peace

EDIT: oh totally forgot to answer your question, having too much fun of making fun of the prius... If the article is in fact based in truth (which I whilst hold my breath upon-ith) the R will get a clutched style diff like the M3, STI, etc etc, a Torsen will most likely be installed in the entry level, like I said... if the article is true, which is highly skeptical indeed since the official release is fairly close and they aren't selling magazines on fact, just on the emotional connection that we already have with the car and the desire for it to be everything we dream of.

[GotBoost?]

Well the price on the car is a bit off. I was thinking more in the 20-25k USD range, considering if its in the 40k USD range I could just as easily buy a 2009 Corvette and have money left over, and a whole lot more performance for the price.

[ryridesmotox]

Originally Posted by GotBoost?

Well the price on the car is a bit off. I was thinking more in the 20-25k USD range, considering if its in the 40k USD range I could just as easily buy a 2009 Corvette and have money left over, and a whole lot more performance for the price.

Holy baby Jeebuz $40k... lol I think most people are talking about $30k max with every imaginable factory option. If it's $40k I really don't think they would even sell one car.

[GotBoost?]

Hopefully its around 22k with nothing in it.

[Buggy51]

Originally Posted by GotBoost?

Hopefully its around 22k with nothing in it.

... >_> well if its on hopes, I'd rather have everything in it as well.

[tripjammer]

I am predicting $24k base..there won't much options..look at the current
Scions...options r limited...there are mostly accessories options.

There won't be a sunroof.
There might be a sport package options (brembo brakes, 18 inch rims, ect)
There won't be a navigation option

There might be a package that offers Hids and leather seats...but I think Hids
will be standard..

I am going with $24k...For the 6 speed manual version
Oh that 6 speed auto will make it $25k...

[GotBoost?]

I could go for some brembo's and I would even pay 24-25k to have them on the car. As for the 18's, I wouldn't want to pay for wheels that I'm going to replace as it is.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by GotBoost?

I could go for some brembo's and I would even pay 24-25k to have them on the car. As for the 18's, I wouldn't want to pay for wheels that I'm going to replace as it is.

I agree who cares what type of stock rims come on the car...we all r gonna get better aftermarket rims. Rims are not as expensive like the use to be.

What you want as standard on this car is:
HIDS
LED taillights (check)
LSD (check)
Push button start (check)
Nice brakes

But lets hope the stock brakes are brembos or at least something that is at least 4 piston caliper from and 2 piston caliper rear...

Since we don't see a wing as stock...it might come with a auto deploying wing. They put one as standard on the new MINI Roadster....so Toyota could do it here...