Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'll have to say, my OFT experience has been pretty good in my completely unscientific and non-controlled testing lol. As a data point from my last track event at Summit Main:

- A guy I know with just an ECUTek tune exited T10 at 86 mph and hit 120 mph by brake marker 3.

- I'm OFT stage 2 and I exited T10 at 82 mph and hit 121 mph by brake marker 4.

He's a better driver and was on hoosiers, and I was on sumitomos, so our exit speeds are quite different, but the interesting part is the delta. He gained 34 mph on the front straight, whereas I gained 39 mph in a slightly shorter distance.

This isn't a completely controlled test, but it looks like OFT (and stage 2 exhaust mods) made a nice difference, about 5 mph over a ~2500 ft distance. He dyno'd around 185 whp on a dynojet on 93 octane. I'm going to re-dyno in a few weeks (but made 177 whp on the same dyno with stock tune + just CBE).

That said, you know your stuff Mike so I don't doubt you for a second either. One thing I suspect is that OFT base maps are somewhat aggressive and if you don't have access to good fuel, it will knock and pull timing (i.e., lose power).

Commendable, but unfortunately purely anecdotal. You're off to a great start for analyzing data though!

Here's some confounding variables for your comparison.

- Hoosiers have FAR FAR higher rolling resistance, resulting in less acceleration
- Hoosiers are lighter than most street tires, resulting in less rotational inertia
- Alignment data on the two cars is unknown; toe has a large effect on acceleration
- Wheel data is unknown; sunk wheels generate less drag, which is significant at the speeds you are going. Lighter wheels are less inertia.

Based on the dyno numbers, I'm gonna guess that the rolling resistance of the hoosiers resulted in less acceleration.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's just not a complete tuning solution.

Would you drive on track missing 2 of your 3 mirrors? Tuning with OFT is like tuning without everything you need.

That and I've seen a lot of people get *slower* after they get an OFT.

I don't see how OFT is missing anything that's really that relevant for track use vs any other tuning solutions. I'm not going to take this thread off topic, but I thought you had some sort of valuable input on this that I was missing.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

I don't see how OFT is missing anything that's really that relevant for track use vs any other tuning solutions. I'm not going to take this thread off topic, but I thought you had some sort of valuable input on this that I was missing.

From OFT's website

How many tables do I have access to?

At current count, you will have access to well over 200 tables. More will come as more users dig into the ROM.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

From OFT's website

[/COLOR]

And? I'm honestly not sure why anybody needs anything more than OFT for N/A BPU stuff since you can easily do custom tunes

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

And? I'm honestly not sure why anybody needs anything more than OFT for N/A BPU stuff since you can easily do custom tunes

I will not go into more detail on WHICH tables are missing, since it is the IP that is a tuner's bread and butter.

Unfortunately, I cannot ask you to do anything more than take my word for it, since I will not provide the tangible evidence you see. My history of providing sound feedback is all I can provide, as well as the fact that CSG sells neither Ecutek nor OFT.

If you choose to use OFT, then best of luck to you. I dislike EcuTek, but it is , quite unfortunately, the best tuning solution currently available. I'd much rather have something akin Cobb AP or Hondata FP.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I will not go into more detail on WHICH tables are missing, since it is the IP that is a tuner's bread and butter.

Unfortunately, I cannot ask you to do anything more than take my word for it, since I will not provide the tangible evidence you see. My history of providing sound feedback is all I can provide, as well as the fact that CSG sells neither Ecutek nor OFT.

If you choose to use OFT, then best of luck to you. I dislike EcuTek, but it is , quite unfortunately, the best tuning solution currently available. I'd much rather have something akin Cobb AP or Hondata FP.

Oh, I fully understand that EcuTek has more, but for 99% of owners who will likely do basic exhaust or intake stuff, OFT is fine. You might not get every last HP, but a safe tune is easily achievable.

If I was racing the car I'd go with a standalone ECU and replace the factory ABS while I was at it.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Oh, I fully understand that EcuTek has more, but for 99% of owners who will likely do basic exhaust or intake stuff, OFT is fine. You might not get every last HP, but a safe tune is easily achievable.

If I was racing the car I'd go with a standalone ECU and replace the factory ABS while I was at it.

It's not about getting every last bit of power. The power from the two on a dyno will be identical.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's not about getting every last bit of power. The power from the two on a dyno will be identical.

this is going nowhere, but thanks for your opinion.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Commendable, but unfortunately purely anecdotal. You're off to a great start for analyzing data though!

Here's some confounding variables for your comparison.

- Hoosiers have FAR FAR higher rolling resistance, resulting in less acceleration
- Hoosiers are lighter than most street tires, resulting in less rotational inertia
- Alignment data on the two cars is unknown; toe has a large effect on acceleration
- Wheel data is unknown; sunk wheels generate less drag, which is significant at the speeds you are going. Lighter wheels are less inertia.

Based on the dyno numbers, I'm gonna guess that the rolling resistance of the hoosiers resulted in less acceleration.

Good points - we thought the Hoosiers would have higher rolling resistance. Toe was controlled (0 on both cars), both wheels were 17x8 +45. But yeah, probably too many uncontrolled variables between cars to make a good comparison.

As another data point, I can say just comparing with my own car, I gained 1-2 mph on the back straight at Shenandoah going from stock --> OFT stage 1 (went from peak 103-104 mph --> 105 mph consistently). I reflashed in between track days so the conditions were roughly similar. I'm interested what going to stage 2 netted me, maybe another 1-2 mph. Will find out next spring

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Is something like a Carbotech XP12 f/r with not going to stand up to R-comps on a mostly stock car? I know there is much better feel and modulation with a BBK (my Miata has Wilwoods at all 4 corners), but $2200 buys a lot of seat time.

I've stayed away from R-comps for the same reason. I've been using AD08's and RE11's and even with these tires I've found that the Xp12s last about 4 track days; which isn't horrible, but not great. Brake feel and fade are fine; I do have brake ducts. I will try a set of Cobalts to see if they last longer, but, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on bigger heat sinks...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

I've stayed away from R-comps for the same reason. I've been using AD08's and RE11's and even with these tires I've found that the Xp12s last about 4 track days; which isn't horrible, but not great. Brake feel and fade are fine; I do have brake ducts. I will try a set of Cobalts to see if they last longer, but, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on bigger heat sinks...

Once you get to that level of temperatures, the only pads that will last longer are the enduro pads, but... they're a bit lacking in modulation.

Let us know when you want a BBK!

Put it this way. The CP8350 version of the XP12 is 7 bucks more for around 80% more pad. 7 bucks!

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

I've stayed away from R-comps for the same reason. I've been using AD08's and RE11's and even with these tires I've found that the Xp12s last about 4 track days; which isn't horrible, but not great. Brake feel and fade are fine; I do have brake ducts. I will try a set of Cobalts to see if they last longer, but, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on bigger heat sinks...

Yikes.


Yeah on the Miata we put 10 sessions on the car in one day with XP10/8 combo, I don't think you could measure the wear on them at the end of the day.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Commendable, but unfortunately purely anecdotal. You're off to a great start for analyzing data though!

Here's some confounding variables for your comparison.

- Hoosiers have FAR FAR higher rolling resistance, resulting in less acceleration
- Hoosiers are lighter than most street tires, resulting in less rotational inertia
- Alignment data on the two cars is unknown; toe has a large effect on acceleration
- Wheel data is unknown; sunk wheels generate less drag, which is significant at the speeds you are going. Lighter wheels are less inertia.

Based on the dyno numbers, I'm gonna guess that the rolling resistance of the hoosiers resulted in less acceleration.

While not trying to jump into the whole OFT vs EcuTek debate, I was the other person that @DarkSunrise was referring to. My top speed with street tires (235/40R17 Z2's, Enkei RPF 17x8 +45 wheels) was 122.5 according to my AIM and a corner exit speed around 86mph.

Here's the video:

While it isn't a very scientific measure of power, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that @DarkSunrise had a higher top speed and delta than me was due to his power advantage. Keep in mind that I'm pretty sure I was also braking later than Dark. I had dyno'd my car on the same dyno that he did and got ~185whp so I wouldn't be surprised if Dark's car is putting out somewhere in the low 190's or more.

I'm not trying to say the OFT tune will get you more power, not at all. I'd bet the main difference came down to Dark having a header+other exhaust mods while I was totally stock exhaust and just a drop in filter. It will be more interesting once all the parts I've ordered come in (GrimmSpeed intake and JDL EL Header/overpipe/frontpipe+HFC, stock cat back though as it doesn't really add any power and my car is already underweight for TTD). Hoping to be well over 200whp with those mods.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

I now have a Kraftwerks C38 blower on my car with the Skunk2 oil cooler tuned at 10psi. I don't go lapping much maybe 2-3 events each summer, and its generally cooler up here in Canada for lapping days (25 degrees Celcius). Should I seriously be looking for a aluminum radiator for the coming year?