Toyota 86 / Scion FR-S Convertible Roadster confirmed (with photos from Long Beach)

[Want.FR-S]

So after the car is revealed, the rumors of turbo (SC) and convertible arise. It seems that all the things been said about weight and rigidity can be forgotten, and the no-turbo thing can be thrown away. I would say for Toyoda, the easiest route would be:

1. get the moon-roof and lift-back thing working for FR-S (should not be too difficult)
2. get the SC from TRD thing working (eventually every tuner will be adding FI to this car)
3. get the convertible thing done, probably soft-top. If convertible hard-top is required, this is a ~500 lb weight penalty whether they want it or not.

p.s. The figure of ~500 lb is based on the comparison of BMW 3 series between coupe and convertible.

What do you guys think?

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by Ravenspeed

100% down if they make it a hard top convertible like the bmw m3 has, but maybe thats too pricey for Toyota to produce.

almost certainly won't be a hard top convertible. That adds a lot of cost and weight plus it takes up more space.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

almost certainly won't be a hard top convertible. That adds a lot of cost and weight plus it takes up more space.

I agree. This thing still needs to be lightweight and a hard top would make no sense.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by coyote

That guy is full of shit and is basically functioning as a PR person, trying to put a Toyota spin on a Subaru product. He may have been given access to some test mules, but he didn't engineer nor is he involved in building the car, Subaru do that ... and they said from the outset it was engineered to be a convertible. I know many like to worship that Tada guy, but he's shown quite a bit that he talks a lot of tripe.

Your posts are always amusing. This is just big bad Toyota bullying Subaru into making a car they didn't want to make: no AWD, no turbos, DI. This car is practically date rape, right?

[Deslock]

If a convertible happens, and if it's a 4 seater, I could see there being a market (since the mini convertible and VW Eos are FWD). But as others have mentioned, that'd compromise the chassis. The MX5 and S2k are also affected by being open-top, but not as much as an FT86 convertible would be (because the MX5 and S2k have shorter wheelbases, and the S2k has taller doors and a large central tunnel with an "X-bone frame").

Originally Posted by Harinjo

nice - but i want a 4-door 86

RX8

Originally Posted by tripjammer

I hope it will be a two seater.

MX5

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Deslock

If a convertible happens, and if it's a 4 seater, I could see there being a market (since the mini convertible and VW Eos are FWD). But as others have mentioned, that'd compromise the chassis. The MX5 and S2k are also affected by being open-top, but not as much as an FT86 convertible would be (because the MX5 and S2k have shorter wheelbases, and the S2k has taller doors and a large central tunnel with an "X-bone frame").


RX8


MX5

The RX8 is dead.

The MX5 is too small inside and out and not enough power. And the current MX5 is ugly. Hopefully the next gen will look cool.

A 86 convertible will have to be a two seater because the top will have to go somewhere. And the 86 looks bad assed.

If they designed the 86 as a coupe and convertible from the beginning then the convertible will only be at most 200 pounds more....maybe less

A 370Z touring roadster 6 speed manual is 3479 pounds
A 370Z nismo is 3314 pounds

[switchlanez]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but it's safe to assume the convertible will have further chassis reinforcements over the coupe which would increase its weight. If "hooks" for reinforcement are built-in, that means the car is better prepared to handle a *power bump* to complement increased weight/rigidity. Just in case the OEM decides to take advantage of those "hooks" on the coupe chassis. And just for reference: Subaru Confirms Turbocharged Version of BRZ Engine.

[Kunzite]

Originally Posted by coyote

That guy is full of shit and is basically functioning as a PR person, trying to put a Toyota spin on a Subaru product. He may have been given access to some test mules, but he didn't engineer nor is he involved in building the car, Subaru do that ... and they said from the outset it was engineered to be a convertible. I know many like to worship that Tada guy, but he's shown quite a bit that he talks a lot of tripe.

Quentin, I find it sad - not amusing.

[Abflug]

the vert is not an option for me, but nice too see that there is one!

AND THIS - IN A HEART BEAT

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

The RX8 is dead.

Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that the RX8 is only *mostly* dead. There's a big difference between *mostly* dead and all dead.

Seriously, the 2011 RX8 is sill available. Other than the poor MPG and oil consumption (a non-issue), the RX8 is essentially what a 4-door FT86 would be.

Originally Posted by tripjammer

The MX5 is too small inside and out and not enough power.

Without an engine upgrade, a convertible FT86's peak-power/weight would likely be on par with the NC MX5.

Originally Posted by tripjammer

A 86 convertible will have to be a two seater because the top will have to go somewhere.

Basis for that statement? Most of the 48 convertibles listed at http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/02/convertibles/ are 4 seaters.

Originally Posted by tripjammer

If they designed the 86 as a coupe and convertible from the beginning then the convertible will only be at most 200 pounds more....maybe less

A 370Z touring roadster 6 speed manual is 3479 pounds
A 370Z nismo is 3314 pounds

At an extra 200 pounds, the hypothetical FT86 convertible would have less peak-power/weight than the 6MT soft-top NC. Peak-engine-torque/weight (not something I care about, but something many others do) already favors the NC over the FT86 coupe.

[micmic]

Originally Posted by Deslock

...Most of the 48 convertibles listed at http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/02/convertibles/ are 4 seaters.

I guess "Most" of the people looking for 4 seat convertibles would be cross-shopping the FR-S with convertibles offered by Audi, Austin Martin, Bently, etc.

So, how many of those are in the same price range (<30K)? Only 8 of the 48.

Smart forTwo
Fiat 500
Mazda Miata
Mini Cooper
Chrysler 200
Ford Mustang
Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder
Chevrolet Camaro

The Smart forTwo and Fiat 500 aren't really converatables, so they're out.

The Chrysler 200? Completely different demographics.

The Mustang and Camaro are HUGE. Not quite apples to apples.

That leaves the Miata, Mini Cooper, and Eclipse Spyder as the real competition for this car. If the FT86 drives as well as all of the reviews have made it out to be, it will be very competitive in this group (as a two or four seat convertible).

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that the RX8 is only *mostly* dead. There's a big difference between *mostly* dead and all dead.

Seriously, the 2011 RX8 is sill available. Other than the poor MPG and oil consumption (a non-issue), the RX8 is essentially what a 4-door FT86 would be.


Without an engine upgrade, a convertible FT86's peak-power/weight would likely be on par with the NC MX5.


Basis for that statement? Most of the 48 convertibles listed at http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/02/convertibles/ are 4 seaters.



At an extra 200 pounds, the hypothetical FT86 convertible would have less peak-power/weight than the 6MT soft-top NC. Peak-engine-torque/weight (not something I care about, but something many others do) already favors the NC over the FT86 coupe.

I never said the RX8 was a bad car...it is just not being made anymore therefore it is dead.

Supposedly the next gen MX5 is going to have more power.

Anyway who said that they would keep the engine power the same when the still rumored FT86 convertible comes out? It could be rocking a 270HP turbo motor....hehe

I still don't see why we keep comparing the FRS\BRZ\86 to the MX5! They are totally different cars! The only thing close is the possible pricing. Now if this rumored convertible FT86 comes out and it is a 2 seater then yeah we can compare it. But if it is a 4 seater then no way. It would be be a unique 4 seater RWD low cost convertible...if they can keep the pricing under $30k...

I also don't understand if Scion would not be jumping at the bit to have a Convertible FR-S in their lineup...

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by micmic

I guess "Most" of the people looking for 4 seat convertibles would be cross-shopping the FR-S with convertibles offered by Audi, Austin Martin, Bently, etc.

So, how many of those are in the same price range (<30K)? Only 8 of the 48.

Smart forTwo
Fiat 500
Mazda Miata
Mini Cooper
Chrysler 200
Ford Mustang
Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder
Chevrolet Camaro

The Smart forTwo and Fiat 500 aren't really converatables, so they're out.

The Chrysler 200? Completely different demographics.

The Mustang and Camaro are HUGE. Not quite apples to apples.

That leaves the Miata, Mini Cooper, and Eclipse Spyder as the real competition for this car. If the FT86 drives as well as all of the reviews have made it out to be, it will be very competitive in this group (as a two or four seat convertible).

+1...but the Eclipse Spyder is dead...not in production any more...that leaves the MX5 as the only real competition but its a 2 seat roadster if people are only looking at RWD. Once I think about it, Toyota\Subaru will want this car to be a 4 seat convertible so you can possibly carry 4 tires to the track....hehe!

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

And just for reference: Subaru Confirms Turbocharged Version of BRZ Engine.

Perhaps it has already been pointed out that this article does not confirm that the turbo FA engine will be put in the BRZ.

I'm just readin' what it says.