F20C performance out of the FA20

[KoolBRZ]

Just an idea... What if you re-plumbed the port injectors to be methanol only, added a 2nd fuel tank and pump in the trunk for the methanol, and boosted the timing to the sky while keeping it from pinging with the methanol? Then you could keep the car NA. You could set it so it only had an effect from 80% requested torque on up to 140%. That way you could have an economical, sane, daily driver, yet just drop 2 gears and scream up to 7000 RPMs in a heartbeat. It would have the power of E85, but the ease of use, and economy of a regular gas burner.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by discretion

And not that crazy expensive either..

That's cheaper than a F20C longblock...

[celek]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Just an idea... What if you re-plumbed the port injectors to be methanol only, added a 2nd fuel tank and pump in the trunk for the methanol, and boosted the timing to the sky while keeping it from pinging with the methanol? Then you could keep the car NA. You could set it so it only had an effect from 80% requested torque on up to 140%. That way you could have an economical, sane, daily driver, yet just drop 2 gears and scream up to 7000 RPMs in a heartbeat. It would have the power of E85, but the ease of use, and economy of a regular gas burner.

More work than just plumbing meth injection into the manifold

[DarkSunrise]

What exactly is your goal, to match a stock S2000 in power?

A header/exhaust and tune will put an FA20 around 190-200 whp. Bone stock f20c's make about 195-205 whp, so it'll be very close. They do have a thicker midrange though, so should still have an acceleration advantage at lower speeds.

At higher speeds, the S2000's aero disadvantage comes into play. I was able to pull on a stock AP1 running top-down at my last track day on the straight (70-105 mph). I think I surprised the owner. I came back to my car in the pits and found him peering into my engine bay

I also ran about even on the straight with a modified S2000 running top-down at a different track (80-120 mph). I'm not sure what mods he had, but at least a loud exhaust

[discretion]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

Engine swap bro. The fa20 will never be as alive and engaging as the f20c... Bolt-ons don't react real well to this car either, people seem legitimately happy to hit 200whp which just baffles me.

I did some searching but didn't find much info on how that would affect the feel of the car given the higher cog. Obviously the s2k transmission would be a dream

[discretion]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

What exactly is your goal, to match a stock S2000 in power?

A header/exhaust and tune will put an FA20 around 190-200 whp. Bone stock f20c's make about 195-205 whp, so it'll be very close. They do have a thicker midrange though, so should still have an acceleration advantage at lower speeds.

At higher speeds, the S2000's aero disadvantage comes into play. I was able to pull on a stock AP1 running top-down at my last track day on the straight (70-105 mph). I think I surprised the owner. I came back to my car in the pits and found him peering into my engine bay

I also ran about even on the straight with a modified S2000 running top-down at a different track (80-120 mph). I'm not sure what mods he had, but at least a loud exhaust

My goal is to capture the revvy, mechanical feel of the fa20. That engine feels like something could throw in a superbike lol. I love that. The chassis and steering of the FRS is amazing. I think the steering alone blows away anything under 50k. But I really think our engine lacks personality. HP numbers aren't that important to me. Character is.

[discretion]

Originally Posted by celek

You are looking in the realm of $10-12k
My build
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63901

It can be done, do not listed to the naysayers

This is sick! I dont think 10-12k is unreasonable. I'm not planning on doing this in the next year but it's a topic I want to keep abreast of for when I do take the plunge. I basically dream of an engine that behaves like a Yamaha r1m lol.

[Poodles]

You're never EVER going to get the VTEC kick out of this engine. The F20C was also a freak, having the highest pistons speeds of it's time for a production car (it's still second to this day).


Two very different engines, but mods can level the playing field a bit...

[stevo585]

The f20c has variable lift allowing for a very aggressive camshalf and high rpm flow. Our engines do not have variable lift. Also emission strandards are stricter now. Thats all there is to it.

[themadscientist]

That's not really all there is to it. The FA20 is not in the same class as the F20. It's not a bad engine, but it will never be epic like the Honda engine. It is adequate and that is all it will ever be.

Originally Posted by DohcTor

Engine swap bro. The fa20 will never be as alive and engaging as the f20c... Bolt-ons don't react real well to this car either, people seem legitimately happy to hit 200whp which just baffles me.

Depends on your needs. If you want to try fighting out of your weight class and go drag racing then, yeah, 200 isn't enough. If you want to just have fun, it's enough. The car does'nt feel ashamed of that or hide it so if you bought one thinking it was anything else, that's your fault like buying a 1/4" ratchet to torque lug nuts and bitching when it breaks.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by celek

The difference is that with a turbo build you will net more power BUT brake more shit. A NA build when done right can last 100k miles+.

NA will not reach the physical mechanical failure limit like turbo does,

I am all for na and I watch your build with interest. Fi doesn't interest me but I have issue with your above statements.

You have made broad generalisations that may not apply to individual motors.
Sure, a na motor might last to 100k miles but not if it being thrashed exclusively on track at 6-9k rpm. Conversely, a well built turbo engine may last as long if it is being used as a shopping trolley.
Sorry, I am being a pedant but to say one is more reliable than the other doesn't take into account the myriads of ways an engine can be built, used or maintained.

[/rant]

[stevo585]

[QUOTE=themadscientist;2277489]That's not really all there is to it. The FA20 is not in the same class as the F20. It's not a bad engine, but it will never be epic like the Honda engine. It is adequate and that is all it will ever.


Pretty sure we are saying the same thing. The fa20 isnt in the same class because it doesn't have variable lift. The F20c does of course. This is the primary difference imo.

[serialk11r]

I don't know if pushing the rev limit that much higher is a good idea on this motor, the rods are very short and so the cylinder walls see a lot of stress.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Poodles

You're never EVER going to get the VTEC kick out of this engine. The F20C was also a freak, having the highest pistons speeds of it's time for a production car (it's still second to this day).


Two very different engines, but mods can level the playing field a bit...

Know what's scary?

The new Mustang GT350 piston speeds just bumped the S2k down a notch...