What does it cost you to race? (Cost of racing)

[rice_classic]

The "10 seconds faster than Spec Miata" is just a jumping off point. The mid pack guys are at that pace. The front runners are another 3 seconds beyond that and doing so at 10:1... How depressing is that?!

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Ok so running 10 seconds faster than "spec miata" won't fall into cheap but I'll list some mods/classes and track times for you.
Thank you and you're right. It won't be cheap of course but my calculations simply brought me to the conclusion that I could do it more affordably in an S2k or C5 then I could in an FRS primarily because of the difference in price between 92 octane and race fuel.

Ok so you know NJMP..high weight because stock plus my STi race wheels which are 18x10 with 285/645-18 slicks, driver, full tank of gas, so that was added to factory weight. Make sure the lap times you look up include the chicane at NJMP because Grand AM ST Qualify in the 1:33-1:34 range and they run 13lbs/hp and my FRS at 19lbs/hp (2950/153hp). My wheels way too heavy and tall for na frs fast lap.

Appreciate the clarification. I don't think I was accounting for that. The ITA track record I listed was for NJMP Thunderbolt: 1:36.2

1:43 Road Atlanta on Hankook RS3, coilovers, brakes, +15hp?...mods listed elsewhere and again heavy.

ITA track record 1:42.0, Spec Miata: 1:44.6. I think with RA1's or R6's you would have been faster than ITA for sure.

1:18 Summit Point in NASA ST2/TT2. My tire choice has me very resticted in class so 325 whp/2990 lbs. I was a tick off the class/track record. Had I known I could have shaved a 10th or so I needed. Track record is held by C6 race prepped Z06.

SM record is 1:28.0. So there you have it! However, that setup was at 9.2:1. Could you have done the same with 299whp?

2:04 VIR Full again in TT2 trim 325whp/2990 lbs. Grand AM GS pole a couple years ago was 2:03-2:04s.

1:29 NJ Thunderbolt again in TT2 trim 325 whp/2960 lbs. Grand AM GS pole 1:28-1:29.

This one is tough because it's hard to find concrete times specific to when the chicane was or was not used. Thank you though.

Hope that helps. The car seems totally competitive in power/weight ratio classes but I don't know about scca bullshit classing

Responses in bold. I got a chuckle out of SCCA bullshit classing because I mostly agree but classes like Improved Touring is one the best classes in the country because of the diversity in cars, competitiveness and a rule set that keeps costs under control. The class that I'm specifically talking about however is only specific to the ICSCC, it doesn't exist in SCCA or NASA...but it should.

If it seems like I'm hung up on "pump gas" it's because I am. When we're racing we're literally burning money so I'd like to hit my target times by burning the least amount of money. My math tells me it's possible run those same times you posted at a 10:1 power to weight ratio in a C5 or S2k without having to use E85 or 110 and thusly reduce operating cost.

However, what you have posted and the times you've turned is evidence enough to everyone reading that the FRS is very capable platform.

Last but not least. Have you calculated fuel burn rate? Have you run the car flat out for 30 minutes, 1 hour or more? An Subaru I race with (but not in class) is making 300whp and burning 22 gallons an hour.

Race fuel is ~$13/gallon. Every hour is $286 in fuel for him. The S2k turning the almost the same times is burning half that of 92 octane which is roughly $40/hour in fuel. Ugh.. just talking about it makes me sick.. I need to take up go-kart racing!

[CSG Mike]

I feel so out of place reading this... carry on
@rice_classic: fwiw, we get roughly 3.5-4 MPG on track with the BRZ, naturally aspirated on street tires. I'm WOT roughly 85% of the time on most laps.

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I feel so out of place reading this... carry on
@rice_classic: fwiw, we get roughly 3.5-4 MPG on track with the BRZ, naturally aspirated on street tires. I'm WOT roughly 85% of the time on most laps.

Yeah my track mileage is about that too ... my last 2 track events of the year I spent in 3rd and 4th gear 95% of the time between 5500 and 7400 RPMs. Four 30 minute sessions had me adding a splash of gas before session 4 just to avoid running out on the track. Good thing I wasn't buying 100 octane at the track at $10 a gallon ...

[solidONE]

What a sad thread.... lol

With my budget, I can playstation and gran turismo. lmao

[Stevo22]

I do not know what kind of budget it takes to run in NASA TT, but it appears a few people have done well with the twins in TTD so far.

GT Motoring Smashes Gingerman NASA TTD Record by 3+ seconds

Jon Miller: Scion FR-S, Roebling Road NASA TTD Track Record

How I (almost) Won a National Championship In My Daily Driver (FR-S):

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

I do not know what kind of budget it takes to run in NASA TT, but it appears a few people have done well with the twins in TTD so far.

GT Motoring Smashes Gingerman NASA TTD Record by 3+ seconds

Jon Miller: Scion FR-S, Roebling Road NASA TTD Track Record

How I (almost) Won a National Championship In My Daily Driver (FR-S):

I found that with my car on oversized wheels and tires (until I go Forced Induction that is lol) and no weight reduction or preparation ... and me being a very green driver at this point - that I was only 5 seconds off the lap times of NASA TTD drivers standing on the podium ...

If I were to move back to standard tire sizes, and lose some 300 lbs in my car, and get a header and a tune, I could stay within TTD class and be very competitive.

For a daily driver like mine is currently ... losing 300 lbs in the car is not a pretty sight or even possible to remain a DD... I can lose exhaust weight, maybe a back seat delete, maybe the battery swap and *gasp* - run some more and eat less - to get some of that weight down.

Getting a header and tune to open up the range of usable power band just a bit will help on some tracks where downshifting to 2nd is questionable versus being able to ride 3rd out of a turn, and getting a little more at the top end is always good. Even some small power/torque gains can add up once weight starts coming off the car.

All this being said - the cost for headers and a tune look to be about $1400 ...

Tires are always going to be $800+ ... maybe last 2 to 4 events depending on the track and how many sessions you run and how aggressive you are.

Losing weight ... well pulling out items in your car is free ... but swapping batteries is a $350 proposition ...

Brake pads are about 250 to 450 depending on the type .... I have some Ferodo DS-1s that are combo track and street - that have been amazing and seem to be capable of about 3 or 4 track weekends ...

Entry fees for a NASA event weekend ... about 350 a weekend.
So how does that stack up cost wise ... pretty reasonable until something breaks or I drive off the course. I've gotta assume that at some point I'm going to miss an entry into a corner or get run off the track by someone and chew up my tires or underbody ... but .. that's the way it goes ...

And if you win TTD glory or get on the podium? Maybe 50 to 100 off on brake pads through Hawk ... or tires by Toyo ...

So you better be on the track because you love it ... not because you want to win money!

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I feel so out of place reading this... carry on
@rice_classic: fwiw, we get roughly 3.5-4 MPG on track with the BRZ, naturally aspirated on street tires. I'm WOT roughly 85% of the time on most laps.

On our tracks around here that are 2.4 miles we do roughly 1:40 lap times. In a 30 minute race we do 17-18 laps.

Let's say 18 laps on a 2.4 mile track at 4MPG: 18*2.4=43.2 43.2/4mpg = 10.8 gallons in 30 minutes or 21.6 Gal/hr! And that's NA?! GOOD LORD!

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

I do not know what kind of budget it takes to run in NASA TT, but it appears a few people have done well with the twins in TTD so far.

Originally Posted by TrogDor the Burninator

I found that with my car on oversized wheels and tires (until I go Forced Induction that is lol) and no weight reduction or preparation ... and me being a very green driver at this point - that I was only 5 seconds off the lap times of NASA TTD drivers standing on the podium ...
.....
So you better be on the track because you love it ... not because you want to win money!

I specifically used the word "racing" in the title of this thread because it's specific to my purposes which is W2W racing and there has been some good info being shared with a big thanks to Element Tuning as well.

BUT! Alas, Stevo and Trogdor bring to light something anyone reading this thread should consider: The Twins can compete in Time Trials very well and quite affordably so. I think it's been made clear that if you want to "compete" but don't have the budget for W2W, then bringing an 86 to a TT event is a terrific way to go.


@CSG Mike When you say 3.5-4mpg are you using the in-dash calculator or are you actually measuring how much fuel you put in between runs? I feel that burning 21.6 gallons/hour seems a bit much for a NA 2.0L engine. Is that E85?

[CSG Mike]

@rice_classic

CA 91 octane, stock drivetrain, stock tune.
@ImperiousRex's turbo BRZ is closer to 2.5-3MPG...

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

@rice_classic

CA 91 octane, stock drivetrain, stock tune.
@ImperiousRex's turbo BRZ is closer to 2.5-3MPG...

I've really really been spoiled by Honda.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I've really really been spoiled by Honda.

I facepalmed too, but I think it's cuz the FA20 just dumps fuel up top in the RPM range. This is evo/sti territory for MPG.

[Stevo22]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I've really really been spoiled by Honda.

What kind of mpg are you getting in your ITA car? @CSG Mike your s2000?


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[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

What kind of mpg are you getting in your ITA car? @CSG Mike your s2000?

My CRX is a 1.6L with fuel cut at 7400rpms and tuned at roughly 12:1 AFR.

~8 gallons/hour.

It's interesting because...

It's a stock tank and it starts to fuel starve around 8 gallons. Now here's the cool part.

At Portland International without the chicane it start to fuel start at 50 minutes, with the chicane it just makes it past the hour. At Pacific Raceways I've gone as along as 75 minutes before it choked. It's interesting at difference in WOT time between the track layouts and fuel burn. But at PR I'm still burning at about the same rate as PIR but the design of the track produces less "slosh".

A 200whp B18c5 we recently built is coming up at roughly a 10-11 gallon/hour burn rate and it's tuned the same: roughly 12:1 AFR.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

What kind of mpg are you getting in your ITA car? @CSG Mike your s2000?


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I get roughly 6-7 MPG on track in my S2k.