Clutch Feel / Question

[inferno56kb]

Hi Guys and Gals

So I tried to search for this in the forums for about 2 hours now and didn't find anything that would answer my question so sorry in advance if this topic was already brought up at some point.

My question is, is there a way to change how the clutch feels. Specifically i want to change the distance the pedal has to travel between grabbing and fully engaged (not sure if this is the right term since i'm from Austria). I'll try to explain so i'm not misunderstood. For example, I shift into first, slowly let the clutch come upwards, feel it grab and the car start to move, now from this point until the point where i can take my foot off the pedal is reeeeeeeeally long imho. I've driven manual all my life (15years now) and i've driven cars ranging from 86whp to 488whp and not once was I this annoyed by the feel of the clutch. I thought I'd get used to it, but it still feels shit every time i drive the car. Now if i drive spirited it doesn't feel bad because I make quick shifts so I don't notice, it feels really good there actually, but driving around the city going mostly slow and easy it really feels horrible.

I already removed the spring and adjusted the grab point which made it feel a lot better than stock already, but it obviously doesn't change this specific behavior. What would I have to change /do/upgrade to get rid of this?

Thanks for all the replies in advance and again, sorry if this was already asked but there are a lot of posts about the awkward clutch and none of the once i looked at had an answer for this problem.

[Zentec]

Yes Mtec has a clutch helper spring will help the feel of the pedal. Also ultramaroon has posted a way to increase the feel as well but is more involved. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...+clutch+spring.
My advice is to replace your Mtec clutch spring first and drive it for a few months to see if you like it.

You are able to adjust the height of the pedal but I would have a certified tech do this if you are so you don't over do it and mess up your clutch some how.

Since you are in au after your breakin period I would sudjest moving to a 5w30 full synthitic motor oil any top Brand will do.

Happy driving.

[chaoskaze]

ultra has a thread on how you can change the clutch slave cylinder to change feel


But i don't think our clutch feel is that big of issue as ppl set out to be? I don't feel my clutch being worse at driving fast compare to other cars i been in. But ya when you driv slow the clutch is kind weird.
*removing the clutch spring & set the clutch bite point lower actually makes it a bit less smooth for heel toe? But not like you can't get use to that anyway.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by inferno56kb

Hi Guys and Gals

So I tried to search for this in the forums for about 2 hours now and didn't find anything that would answer my question so sorry in advance if this topic was already brought up at some point.

My question is, is there a way to change how the clutch feels. Specifically i want to change the distance the pedal has to travel between grabbing and fully engaged (not sure if this is the right term since i'm from Austria). I'll try to explain so i'm not misunderstood. For example, I shift into first, slowly let the clutch come upwards, feel it grab and the car start to move, now from this point until the point where i can take my foot off the pedal is reeeeeeeeally long imho. I've driven manual all my life (15years now) and i've driven cars ranging from 86whp to 488whp and not once was I this annoyed by the feel of the clutch. I thought I'd get used to it, but it still feels shit every time i drive the car. Now if i drive spirited it doesn't feel bad because I make quick shifts so I don't notice, it feels really good there actually, but driving around the city going mostly slow and easy it really feels horrible.

I already removed the spring and adjusted the grab point which made it feel a lot better than stock already, but it obviously doesn't change this specific behavior. What would I have to change /do/upgrade to get rid of this?

Thanks for all the replies in advance and again, sorry if this was already asked but there are a lot of posts about the awkward clutch and none of the once i looked at had an answer for this problem.

Put the Mtec spring as you will develop premature wear with out one!!

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Zentec

Put the Mtec spring as you will develop premature ware with out one!!

WRONG. And it is wear not ware. And pedal not peddle.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by swarb

WRONG. And it is wear not ware. And pedal not peddle.

Please use evidence and read other post before saying something is wrong. At http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86848 you will see that Mtec tech posted that he did see increased wear in the slave master. Also there are lots of other post on this subject posted around as well.

I will always give more credit to an engineer vs some one who is not with mechanics.

Sorry for wear and pedal as I post on an iPhone quickly auto correct sometimes bugs the heck out of me.

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Zentec

Please use evidence and read other post before saying something is wrong. At http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86848 you will see that Mtec tech posted that he did see increased wear in the slave master. Also there are lots of other post on this subject posted around as well.

I will always give more credit to an engineer vs some one who is not with mechanics.

Sorry for wear and pedal as I post on an iPhone quickly auto correct sometimes bugs the heck out of me.

I'm going to be open minded and let you find and post the information where there is increased wear on the slave master cylinder.

There is no information in the link you posted were there is wear mentioned. Only information on the amount of play by removing the spring.

Until you can prove there IS increased wear. You are WRONG. There are many people with 100K++ miles with ZERO problems. I have yet to see ONE example where there was increased wear caused by spring removal.

Please use evidence and read other post before saying something increases wear.

[Minglor]

I have a strong dislike of the clutch pedal feel in the FRS. I find it to be soft with too wide of an engagement area.
I've added Whiteline inserts for the differential and transmission, which helped give some feedback.
Next I'm going to change the slave cylinder and line.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

[Jakinit]

Originally Posted by Zentec

Please use evidence and read other post before saying something is wrong. At http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86848 you will see that Mtec tech posted that he did see increased wear in the slave master. Also there are lots of other post on this subject posted around as well.

I will always give more credit to an engineer vs some one who is not with mechanics.

Sorry for wear and pedal as I post on an iPhone quickly auto correct sometimes bugs the heck out of me.

The ONE comment I've seen about added wear comes from Mtech, the people selling the aftermarket spring. Bit of a coincidence, don't ya think?

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by Jakinit

The ONE comment I've seen about added wear comes from Mtech, the people selling the aftermarket spring. Bit of a coincidence, don't ya think?

So if grimmspeed tech shows data and post his data vs say other intakes. So his info is not valid just cause he is an engineer or from the company that sells product. How about if you follow ultramaroon do his slave update and you don't think it feels any better to you. His posts are wrong because he suggested it?

If it wasn't meant to be there they would have not put it in there when designing the car for mass production.

[Jakinit]

Originally Posted by Zentec

So if grimmspeed tech shows data and post his data vs say other intakes. So his info is not valid just cause he is an engineer or from the company that sells product. How about if you follow ultramaroon do his slave update and you don't think it feels any better to you. His posts are wrong because he suggested it?

If it wasn't meant to be there they would have not put it in there when designing the car for mass production.

How do you know that was a credible engineer? Where is his data? It is literally one guy who said hey I witnessed this it's true with nothing to back it up. When a company comes out and posts ACTUAL data that's different I can trust data. When multiple sources repeat the same thing, you can trust that it is credible because it has been validated by multiple sources.

Quite the opposite is true here actually, many people have been driving with no spring since 2013 with no issues. Yes, most people say they like the feel of the spring so I am not saying it is a bad product. If you want that in-between feel and no looseness in the clutch pedal go for it, but I am not going to believe that there is harm in having no spring.

[fika84]

I've been running without a spring for over 30k with occasional track days. Zero additional wear noticed, clutch still feels just like it did the day after I removed the spring.

Also ask yourself, if the clutch pedal is still moving the same distances, how would it increase wear of the cylinders? They're not seeing any extended travel OR more force. The spring simply reduced the transfer of the force to the drivers foot (and hence made it feel like poo for those of use who are used to having the typical pressure plate force move through the hydraulics and to our feet).

[fika84]

Originally Posted by inferno56kb

Hi Guys and Gals

So I tried to search for this in the forums for about 2 hours now and didn't find anything that would answer my question so sorry in advance if this topic was already brought up at some point.

My question is, is there a way to change how the clutch feels. Specifically i want to change the distance the pedal has to travel between grabbing and fully engaged (not sure if this is the right term since i'm from Austria). I'll try to explain so i'm not misunderstood. For example, I shift into first, slowly let the clutch come upwards, feel it grab and the car start to move, now from this point until the point where i can take my foot off the pedal is reeeeeeeeally long imho. I've driven manual all my life (15years now) and i've driven cars ranging from 86whp to 488whp and not once was I this annoyed by the feel of the clutch. I thought I'd get used to it, but it still feels shit every time i drive the car. Now if i drive spirited it doesn't feel bad because I make quick shifts so I don't notice, it feels really good there actually, but driving around the city going mostly slow and easy it really feels horrible.

I already removed the spring and adjusted the grab point which made it feel a lot better than stock already, but it obviously doesn't change this specific behavior. What would I have to change /do/upgrade to get rid of this?

Thanks for all the replies in advance and again, sorry if this was already asked but there are a lot of posts about the awkward clutch and none of the once i looked at had an answer for this problem.

Have you tried bleeding the clutch? Or messing with the pedal position? You obviously want to make sure that when the clutch is fully depressed that everything is engaged as normal, but you can move the engagement point around a little bit.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by Jakinit

How do you know that was a credible engineer? Where is his data? It is literally one guy who said hey I witnessed this it's true with nothing to back it up. When a company comes out and posts ACTUAL data that's different I can trust data. When multiple sources repeat the same thing, you can trust that it is credible because it has been validated by multiple sources.

Quite the opposite is true here actually, many people have been driving with no spring since 2013 with no issues. Yes, most people say they like the feel of the spring so I am not saying it is a bad product. If you want that in-between feel and no looseness in the clutch pedal go for it, but I am not going to believe that there is harm in having no spring.

With no spring you can see that there is more play as there is no pressure brining the pedal back to full out position. This is also shown in the gif in the op post. This little travel has the same effect as resting your foot on the clutch pedal. So yes it can increase wear. If you don't think so why do we have a dead pedal in cars ?

So why add a spring from maker because it has a function to aid in over time. If not they would have not put it in there when engineering it. If you can't drive a clutch don't buy MT buy flappy Paddle or auto transmission. Any person that can really drive MT with skill this is irrelevant as they can adapt.