anyone trying to use the openflash tablet with forced induction?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

When spending 5k+ for FI, fuel and drivetrain upgrades, I don't see the merit in saving 300-400 on the tune. Our EcuTek tunes start at 649 and end at 899 for most common setups (pretty much all you'd run on a stock motor). Then you get the added features of RaceROM, overboost protection, wideband integration, custom traction control, flex fuel....you get the idea. By far the most cost effective upgrade over any other component of an FI setup. So can you do it? I'm sure. But it doesn't make any sense.

I want to do things myself. I want to tweak and change and LOOK at what it's doing. It's not about the money, it's about the principle.

If I have to learn how to program this ECU for FI from scratch with RomRaider, that's what I'll do. IMO, the goal of tuning is to DIY...

Jaden

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I was planning on buying one tonight or tomorrow but I was looking into the viability of tuning for FI with it. I hate the idea of spending $1200 for a flash n go tune with ecutek and not being able to modify it at all.

I also don't want to spend $500 if it's virtually impossible to do forced induction tuning with an OFT...

Jaden

We have a ton of customers running turbo and SC kit. Many of them have ecutek tunes prior to jumping ship to the OFT. So moto-mike's suggestion that the OFT is only for the budget conscious doest sit very well with me. Our maps work quite well, are open and you are free to tweak them as you see fit. Not to mention mounting the OFT for digital/graphical data displays and (soon) safety alerts may be more useful than spending more money and walking away with a cable and dongle to show for it. I'm not a big fan of always keeping my $$ MacBook Pro in the car with me. Almost all of the laptop damage I've seen over the years has been while it was in a car.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

We have a ton of customers running turbo and SC kit. Many of them have ecutek tunes prior to jumping ship to the OFT. So moto-mike's suggestion that the OFT is only for the budget conscious doest sit very well with me. Our maps work quite well, are open and you are free to tweak them as you see fit. Not to mention mounting the OFT for digital/graphical data displays and (soon) safety alerts may be more useful than spending more money and walking away with a cable and dongle to show for it. I'm not a big fan of always keeping my $$ MacBook Pro in the car with me. Almost all of the laptop damage I've seen over the years has been while it was in a car.

I'm not big on keeping a laptop in the car either.

I just recently built a band pass with two 10" subs as I thought that was really all that was missing from the stock stereo.

Eventually I'll build a custom box for each side that fits into the crevices...that's off topic though...

No, what I'll do is build a mini itx pc (already have it) and mount a touchscreen where the current A/C controls are, then I'll program an arduino and write an app to replace the A/C controls and write a custom gui for the apps I'll want including a real time data logger and link the audio from it through the bluetooth to the stock headunit. I may eventually replace the headunit but almost anything else I want to do can be done through the pc.

Jaden

[Akari]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

When spending 5k+ for FI, fuel and drivetrain upgrades, I don't see the merit in saving 300-400 on the tune. Our EcuTek tunes start at 649 and end at 899 for most common setups (pretty much all you'd run on a stock motor) including hardware/license. Then you get the added features of RaceROM, overboost protection, wideband integration, custom traction control, flex fuel....you get the idea. By far the most cost effective upgrade over any other component of an FI setup. So can you do it? I'm sure. But it doesn't make any sense.

I'm not sure I see what you're getting at here. For someone with a OFT you can spend $3,800 on a Vortech kit with tune and be done. Not everyone wants/needs to spend $5k+ on FI and $650+ on a tune. Why spend 50% more if you're not looking for the extra features/differences? -Sure ECUTek is fully capable but I've yet to see anything that is a must have over a OFT tune.

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I want to do things myself. I want to tweak and change and LOOK at what it's doing. It's not about the money, it's about the principle.

If I have to learn how to program this ECU for FI from scratch with RomRaider, that's what I'll do. IMO, the goal of tuning is to DIY...

Jaden

Jarden, you are a serious DIY kind of person I see. That's great, and my hat's off to you. I'd love to see some of the things you are talking about developing come to fruition. That would be an awesome setup!

As for DIY tuning, I don't know if you are aware that EcuTek offers a full DIY solution that includes RaceRom, giving you the same features and capabilities that are available to EcuTek Master Tuners. The EcuTek software tuning system has a tremendous feature set that you'd find very useful, and much more capable then using Romraider, especially for a forced induction setup.

The ability to build and implement your own over-boost and over-lean protection using an integrated wideband input right in the tune can save an engine with a forced induction setup. Think turbo lines popping off, or a fuel pump failing, or clogged fuel line. Not to mention the capability to implement 4-way map switching that would allow you to define different levels of boost for each map, or perhaps different gas octane levels or even an E85 map. All instantly available with no flashing required! Just a flick of the cruise control stalk. No computer, no tablet, no device required to switch maps.

You would also be able to implement your own flex-fuel system and never need to empty the tank, switch fuels, flash another tune, etc. Again, no computer, no tablet, no device required.

As for locked maps, if a tune is locked on any platform including EcuTek, then you have no ability to tweak that tune. You'd have to start from scratch.

Maybe something has changed that I am not aware of, but it looked to me like even OFT forced induction tunes are locked, and for good reasons. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but see below:

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

OFT300 OTS map will be released in .dev file to our OFT300 customers. OFT300 kits start shipping in a week or so. They will not be public release just yet. Partly because they are new. And partly because we really don't want people messing with them at this point. They perform well and are very thoroughly tested so I don't see the purpose in tinkering with it. It tinkering is required, I'd rather a customer start off from scratch as assume the responsibility of tuning. Providing OTS maps for boosted cars is a pretty big risk exposure. So we limit risk by requiring certainly hardware and ensuring that the maps can't be modified.

If that's the case, you'd be starting from scratch there too. Why not start with a feature-rich platform that fully supports all forms of setups including forced induction, giving you the ability to implement the proper boost controls and safeguards that every forced induction tune should have?

You mentioned that money is not the issue, so I encourage you to really look at the different solutions and choose the one that really gives you what you want and need. I bet you like to build and test things, and tweak and experiment, etc. EcuTek custom mapping is almost like software development within the ECU, and the possibilities are nearly endless with what you can do with it, including custom inputs and outputs. I'm sure you'd be able to build some really cool interfaces with your in-car PC!

So whether you buy an EcuTek tune or go the EcuTek DIY route, you'd have a ton of features and capabilities at your fingertips.

Originally Posted by Jaden

I'm not big on keeping a laptop in the car either.
Jaden

BTW - You need a laptop to tune with any of the solutions mentioned here.

- Bob

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

Jarden, you are a serious DIY kind of person I see. That's great, and my hat's off to you. I'd love to see some of the things you are talking about developing come to fruition. That would be an awesome setup!

As for DIY tuning, I don't know if you are aware that EcuTek offers a full DIY solution that includes RaceRom, giving you the same features and capabilities that are available to EcuTek Master Tuners. The EcuTek software tuning system has a tremendous feature set that you'd find very useful, and much more capable then using Romraider, especially for a forced induction setup.

The ability to build and implement your own over-boost and over-lean protection using an integrated wideband input right in the tune can save an engine with a forced induction setup. Think turbo lines popping off, or a fuel pump failing, or clogged fuel line. Not to mention the capability to implement 4-way map switching that would allow you to define different levels of boost for each map, or perhaps different gas octane levels or even an E85 map. All instantly available with no flashing required! Just a flick of the cruise control stalk. No computer, no tablet, no device required to switch maps.

You would also be able to implement your own flex-fuel system and never need to empty the tank, switch fuels, flash another tune, etc. Again, no computer, no tablet, no device required.

As for locked maps, if a tune is locked on any platform including EcuTek, then you have no ability to tweak that tune. You'd have to start from scratch.

Maybe something has changed that I am not aware of, but it looked to me like even OFT forced induction tunes are locked, and for good reasons. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but see below:



If that's the case, you'd be starting from scratch there too. Why not start with a feature-rich platform that fully supports all forms of setups including forced induction, giving you the ability to implement the proper boost controls and safeguards that every forced induction tune should have?

You mentioned that money is not the issue, so I encourage you to really look at the different solutions and choose the one that really gives you what you want and need. I bet you like to build and test things, and tweak and experiment, etc. EcuTek custom mapping is almost like software development within the ECU, and the possibilities are nearly endless with what you can do with it, including custom inputs and outputs. I'm sure you'd be able to build some really cool interfaces with your in-car PC!

So whether you buy an EcuTek tune or go the EcuTek DIY route, you'd have a ton of features and capabilities at your fingertips.



BTW - You need a laptop to tune with any of the solutions mentioned here.

- Bob

I searched and searched for that and could not find a definitive answer on self tuning with ecutek, everything was pointing to having to use a master tuner or becoming a master tuner.

If you could point me to a definitive resource for that solution you were referring to, I would love to add it to my choices before I make a selection...

Jaden

p.s. Having canned tunes that I can immediately use from the developers in the interim is one of the main selling points to me on using the OFT versus other solutions. It also gives me a way to compare results with the stock tune to lower the learning curve on tuning these cars as well.

And I won't lie, the pricing points are ridiculous on ecutek.. 600 for a cable, 400 for a license, 350 every time you want a tune...

It gets a little ridiculous and I'm sure that self tuning option is another several hundred bucks too.

So, yeah those features are nice, but someone had to figure out how to add those features. I'll hack the damn thing and figure out how to do those same things myself if I have to.

Being an IT director that administers a network that is almost entirely Linux should give you an idea how much I HATE licensing bullshit..

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

Maybe something has changed that I am not aware of, but it looked to me like even OFT forced induction tunes are locked, and for good reasons. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong...

Just keeping you honest - the OFT300 tune is now in BIN format and not locked. It was in Dev format at the beginning while it was still being tweaked I guess.

That said, I'm not aware of any other OFT FI tunes that are out in BIN format.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I searched and searched for that and could not find a definitive answer on self tuning with ecutek, everything was pointing to having to use a master tuner or becoming a master tuner.

If you could point me to a definitive resource for that solution you were referring to, I would love to add it to my choices before I make a selection...

Jaden

p.s. Having canned tunes that I can immediately use from the developers in the interim is one of the main selling points to me on using the OFT versus other solutions. It also gives me a way to compare results with the stock tune to lower the learning curve on tuning these cars as well.

And I won't lie, the pricing points are ridiculous on ecutek.. 600 for a cable, 400 for a license, 350 every time you want a tune...

It gets a little ridiculous and I'm sure that self tuning option is another several hundred bucks too.

So, yeah those features are nice, but someone had to figure out how to add those features. I'll hack the damn thing and figure out how to do those same things myself if I have to.

Being an IT director that administers a network that is almost entirely Linux should give you an idea how much I HATE licensing bullshit..

Hey, you said "It's not about the money" Not sure where you got those prices from, but they are high!

Seriously though, here is a link to the EcuTek DIY solution on our website: http://www.brz-parts.com/cms-ecu-rru.html. You will need a license and cable kit as well for the complete solution.

The EcuTek software also includes stock ROMs for all regions and great tuning guides and documentation including the topics of supercharger and turbocharger tuning, custom mapping, examples, etc. EcuTek can open unencrypted .bin files as well if you find .bin ROM files you would like to open and check out.

The EcuTek license is simple - one one-time license needed for the ECU to flash an unlimited number of ROMs and unlimited data logging.

You have a PM.

- Bob

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Just keeping you honest - the OFT300 tune is now in BIN format and not locked. It was in Dev format at the beginning while it was still being tweaked I guess.

That said, I'm not aware of any other OFT FI tunes that are out in BIN format.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Cool, I stand corrected.

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I searched and searched for that and could not find a definitive answer on self tuning with ecutek, everything was pointing to having to use a master tuner or becoming a master tuner.

If you could point me to a definitive resource for that solution you were referring to, I would love to add it to my choices before I make a selection...

Jaden

p.s. Having canned tunes that I can immediately use from the developers in the interim is one of the main selling points to me on using the OFT versus other solutions. It also gives me a way to compare results with the stock tune to lower the learning curve on tuning these cars as well.

And I won't lie, the pricing points are ridiculous on ecutek.. 600 for a cable, 400 for a license, 350 every time you want a tune...

It gets a little ridiculous and I'm sure that self tuning option is another several hundred bucks too.

So, yeah those features are nice, but someone had to figure out how to add those features. I'll hack the damn thing and figure out how to do those same things myself if I have to.

Being an IT director that administers a network that is almost entirely Linux should give you an idea how much I HATE licensing bullshit..

Licensing is the only way for the devs at EcuTek to get paid. You can go the OFT/COBB model and lock the hardware to the car, but instead the licensing scheme is used. Frankly, it works much better. Nothing to unmarry, and they are easy to recover in case of dealer overwrite etc...no hardware to send back.

Now the pricing you're quoting is way off. It is generally 350 for a cable, 300 for a license, and tune is anywhere between free (you do get what you pay for) and 500+. Having the ability to DIY tune with EcuTek starts at 650. If you want to add RaceROM add another 350, but nothing else has anything like it. Not cobb nor OFT so there's no comparison to their pricing.

You can then tune your car to your hearts content, knowing that your money went to the guys who did all of the hard work to reverse engineer the platform, and who continue to support it and add features all the time.

As for canned tunes...you can open up any of the canned OFT/RomRaider based tunes with EcuTek and go from there.

Another often overlooked (but very important!) fact is the flash time. I have customers pull up all the time unmarrying their tablets and they sit there for 5-10 minutes waiting. Because that's how long the flash takes. EcuTek? Modern USB3 laptops are done in about 60 seconds. When you're on the dyno at 160/hr that adds up really quick. Even if you're street tuning, sitting there 5-10 minutes a pop while you adjust even the slightest parameters gets old really quick. With EcuTek RaceROM we make a custom map that we can alter based on either a voltage regulator (infinite adjustment) or map switching (combined 8 different modes when mixed with TC on/off). That means one 60 second flash and you have 8+ combinations to try.

I get it that folks doing DIY may not appreciate that at first, but believe me even if you're doing it yourself, wasting 3 hours of a day doing dozens of flashes is rarely worth it. Tuning is fun, but sitting there draining your phone battery killing time while the progress bar slowly moves isn't.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I want to do things myself. I want to tweak and change and LOOK at what it's doing. It's not about the money, it's about the principle.

If I have to learn how to program this ECU for FI from scratch with RomRaider, that's what I'll do. IMO, the goal of tuning is to DIY...

Jaden

I think the real question is how much control do you really want.

You deal with Linux machines and I am sure you know a lot about them. But how many years has it taken you to get to that point and how many administrators have you hired/fired to find a good solid core of reliable people to make those systems work. If you want to tune yourself, you will find yourself going through the same process, learning and finding the right people to get answers (right or wrong) and learning along the way. While fun it is time consuming.

Where as our Flash & Go tune for any forced induction application is a done deal for you. We are constantly revising it, improving drivability, so that we have something that suites everyone's needs no matter where they live in the world. Is it absolutely perfect, does it give the absolute most power and torque, no, but it is an awesome start, it is reliable and works in nearly all conditions and we are always improving on it, especially when we drive them every day.

But we do realize people want a little control, not a lot but more. Well for next year we adding in the ability to custom tweak our Flash & Go tunes through our own Android/iPhone application based system. The applications are bluetooth based and connect to our FlexFuel package which also will connect into additional inputs/outputs on the vehicle allowing you to custom tweak timing, fueling, boost, intake and exhaust cams. This is only possible because of the features EcuTeK offers through RaceROM.

Best part is no laptop needed, not even a black box with some screen it to figure out where to mount and just give up and throw it in your glove compartment box. Instead you could literally be on your phone (or have an Android head unit, which we will be offering more on soon) make a couple changes and be on your way. Oh did we mention you will be able to log to the Android/iPhone applications too...

Want more, with EcuTeK we now offer closed loop fueling correction for our Flash & Go tunes. We also offer tip in knock correction with custom EcuTeK mapping, adjustable and dynamic boost control, along with Speed Density tuning, so as to not have to worry about your MAF sensor placement, a faulty pipe, leaks, etc... We make your life a whole lot easier but if you want to pain that comes with tuning your own forced induction FRS/BRZ/86 you are more than welcome too as there are plenty of options.

So how much control do you really want and how much time do you really want to spend tuning your own vehicle.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

I think the real question is how much control do you really want.

You deal with Linux machines and I am sure you know a lot about them. But how many years has it taken you to get to that point and how many administrators have you hired/fired to find a good solid core of reliable people to make those systems work. If you want to tune yourself, you will find yourself going through the same process, learning and finding the right people to get answers (right or wrong) and learning along the way. While fun it is time consuming.

Where as our Flash & Go tune for any forced induction application is a done deal for you. We are constantly revising it, improving drivability, so that we have something that suites everyone's needs no matter where they live in the world. Is it absolutely perfect, does it give the absolute most power and torque, no, but it is an awesome start, it is reliable and works in nearly all conditions and we are always improving on it, especially when we drive them every day.

But we do realize people want a little control, not a lot but more. Well for next year we adding in the ability to custom tweak our Flash & Go tunes through our own Android/iPhone application based system. The applications are bluetooth based and connect to our FlexFuel package which also will connect into additional inputs/outputs on the vehicle allowing you to custom tweak timing, fueling, boost, intake and exhaust cams. This is only possible because of the features EcuTeK offers through RaceROM.

Best part is no laptop needed, not even a black box with some screen it to figure out where to mount and just give up and throw it in your glove compartment box. Instead you could literally be on your phone (or have an Android head unit, which we will be offering more on soon) make a couple changes and be on your way. Oh did we mention you will be able to log to the Android/iPhone applications too...

Want more, with EcuTeK we now offer closed loop fueling correction for our Flash & Go tunes. We also offer tip in knock correction with custom EcuTeK mapping, adjustable and dynamic boost control, along with Speed Density tuning, so as to not have to worry about your MAF sensor placement, a faulty pipe, leaks, etc... We make your life a whole lot easier but if you want to pain that comes with tuning your own forced induction FRS/BRZ/86 you are more than welcome too as there are plenty of options.

So how much control do you really want and how much time do you really want to spend tuning your own vehicle.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

I walked into this position because my best friend of 17 years died of blocked arteries and a heart attack suddenly at 33. I got the position more because of how quickly I can learn and solve problems that I don't have experience with...well that and I have an MBA...

The weekend before I went in for my interview for the first time I built a linux server and domain controller and joined several windows workstations to it just to see if I could.

Before this I was doing DWDM super high speed fiber networks and before that I was an intelligence operative with the military..

When I want to do something. I figure out how to do it and I do it. I'm a semi professional pool player, a musician who built my own studio and write and record my own music. I designed and built a 50 inch CNC lathe with front and back 6 inch chucks from scratch for ~$1000. I design and make high end custom pool cues. I'm the exception, not the rule, but when I want to do something I just figure out how to do it.

I recently was rear ended and I decided to just go ahead and fix it myself and I designed a graphic to use so that I don't have to paint match which will likely be a dragon wrapping the whole car starting on the hood and ending at the repaired and primered area using white snakeskin vinyl wrap in combination with white plastidip, then I'll white plastidip the wheels to match, it will be subtle and not too garish. This allowed me to pocket most of the settlement money which is where I'm getting the money for my upgrades as I have limited disposable income with all of my projects and my family. I just got a sponsor starting after the first of the year for the billiards tour, so that will free up a bit of disposable income since I won't have to come up with the entry fees.

Jaden

You're right around the corner from me, figuratively, but you're not that far, maybe I can come down and we can talk some more about this.

[Thorpedo]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

Now the pricing you're quoting is way off. It is generally 350 for a cable, 300 for a license, and tune is anywhere between free (you do get what you pay for) and 500+. Having the ability to DIY tune with EcuTek starts at 650. If you want to add RaceROM add another 350, but nothing else has anything like it. Not cobb nor OFT so there's no comparison to their pricing.

I can't see you you could even say this with a straight face. "It is generally 350 for a cable."

With the OFT you are getting tune files, AND the hardware for ~100 bucks more than you charge for a cable. The value is there for the OFT. I simply cannot see how that cabled is priced anywhere near correctly. That is what you call a money grab.

Can one of you master tuners care to explain where the value is added to the cable in so far as to make it worth $350? What would the cost of production be? $20?

Maybe the cable is made by Apple? Ah, yes. That must be it.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by Thorpedo

I can't see you you could even say this with a straight face. "It is generally 350 for a cable."

With the OFT you are getting tune files, AND the hardware for ~100 bucks more than you charge for a cable. The value is there for the OFT. I simply cannot see how that cabled is priced anywhere near correctly. That is what you call a money grab.

Can one of you master tuners care to explain where the value is added to the cable in so far as to make it worth $350? What would the cost of production be? $20?

Maybe the cable is made by Apple? Ah, yes. That must be it.

The value in the cable is that it works on ANY vehicle supported by EcuTeK. Pretty sure your device works on one single vehicle. So the cable can be shared between people and vehicles. We have many group customers that do this around the world and drops the price per person drastically.