I think some people need a reality check...

[soconfoozed]

As a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that it doesn't cost more to design a speaker cover that actually friggin' stays put. Basic fitment issues like that are unacceptable, and nobody should tolerate them.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by soconfoozed

As a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that it doesn't cost more to design a speaker cover that actually friggin' stays put. Basic fitment issues like that are unacceptable, and nobody should tolerate them.

As not a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that even the mightiest of car companies can make mistakes with new models in first year production.

A speaker grill rattle can be easily fix and noted for next time, especially on a $25K jap car; at least its not your new italian exotic thats bursting into flames because of poor designs, that is truly intolerable. Lets be reasonable here.

[soconfoozed]

Originally Posted by chulooz

As not a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that even the mightiest of car companies can make mistakes with new models in first year production.

A speaker grill rattle can be easily fix and noted for next time, especially on a $25K jap car; at least its not your new italian exotic thats bursting into flames because of poor designs, that is truly intolerable. Lets be reasonable here.

Understood RE: new products, and agreed -- sort of. My approach to design is to be much more sensitive to the customer...to BE chief complainer, so that nobody has a chance to take that title from me. Before they shipped they first batch, the project manager should have been popping open doors and hoods and trunks at random, and poking his head in. Rolling windows up and down 1,000 times, because it's not that I don't trust the automated testing that the other engineers did...it's just that I don't trust it. It's his job to decide "yup, this is it, our creation, holy and perfect in all ways." You can't catch them all, but if you look, you can catch most of them. When something like this gets by, one wonders whether the designers ever actually used their product.

I'm actually much more forgiving of problems with longer failure horizons, because artificial aging is a really tricky thing to do.

[exmayol]

Whether 25K is a bargain or not everyone has their own expectations of ideal package. I haven't had a chance to drive one yet but had an opportunity to sit in BRZ Limited and I still think interior has a cheap feel to it. I understand they had to cut corners yet I fail to understand why not add another trim for an extra 2K with nicer materials and all... I fully support function over form yet can't stand cheap feel. Still I am convinced it is one of the most fun cars around and was never in the last 10 years as close to buying one despite all drawbacks.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Trojan_SC

I understand the additional penalties, taxes, tariffs, etc. But are you trying to tell me that all those costs add up to at least $11,000 (Spanish GT-86 costs approx 30k euros = approx $36k USD)

Quite possibly, yes, that's exactly how tariffs work. I couldn't believe my eyes when I visited that dealership in Athens. In contrast though I believe there are certain cars they get much cheaper than we do in the states. Have you noticed how in Germany nearly every taxi is a Mercedes or BMW? Imagine seeing that here, not even Beverly Hills rolls that hard.

[_hollywood]

I dont mind the little quirks here and there, when i get an m3 guy giving me a thumbs up, i slowly forget about my front speaker cover coming out, and the 3donuts i did in a row earlier also make me feel better about my purchase


Its a 25k scion, drive it like you stole it, pansies

[Moto-P]

You know, a LOTUS ELISE and EXIGE costs more than three times this car, and has LESS toys for comfort or ear-blasting audio system...
And that's a proper sports car also. because both FR-S and those Lotus cars have everything a sports car NEEDS to have, and FRS a few more to make life a little more useful.

[Shinjuku05]

I would imagine those kind of rattly things would ultimately fall in the lap of the SCM or Supply chain manager.

when these cars get screwed together as production cranks them out the SCM is charged with the job of ensuring the materials are in supply and within spec of what they need. now if there is a variation in the spec of the goods...guess what they chuck an MRB meeting or a material review board meeting to make sure the alternate supply is within spec of what they need etc etc.

cut a long story short, lets say these door and speaker rattles are a nuisance then its likely the engineer and RI or receivables inspector has not check material density torque spec material grade and max torque spec. this then effects the door seal and weather seal guy. the effect is knocked on allover because they ran out of a fastener of some description and cannot get it supplied or there is a delay in supply.

9/10 its usually the SCM and not the build quality.

gets my 3 thumbs up for the BFYB 2012 car.

[xantonin]

tl;dr

I think the point is people would be willing to pay more for this car if their complaints were met. Regardless of everything else, the foundation of this car being a light weight RWD vehicle means it appeals to a great number of people, including those willing to spend more on it.

The fact that the selection is restricted to one model means those willing to pay more for what they want are stuck complaining. Within this selection of car, there are no other choices to get a lightweight RWD, unless you get an Elise, but in terms of luxury that's a step down.

[Trojan_SC]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

Have you noticed how in Germany nearly every taxi is a Mercedes or BMW? Imagine seeing that here, not even Beverly Hills rolls that hard.

And there are probably more Land Cruisers driving around in Afghanistan than California. Doesn't mean much when they are the stripped down versions and don't have all the amenities that we get here. Remember as well that in Germany, MB, BMW and Audi are to them what Chevy, Ford and Chrysler are to us. Obviously they get them cheaper there.

[empower-auto]

I like how this thread has been reduced from "omg this 25k car is crap! unacceptable!" to "omg speaker grilles"

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by exmayol

Whether 25K is a bargain or not everyone has their own expectations of ideal package. I haven't had a chance to drive one yet but had an opportunity to sit in BRZ Limited and I still think interior has a cheap feel to it. I understand they had to cut corners yet I fail to understand why not add another trim for an extra 2K with nicer materials and all... I fully support function over form yet can't stand cheap feel. Still I am convinced it is one of the most fun cars around and was never in the last 10 years as close to buying one despite all drawbacks.

I drive a RSX just like you do and the Limited interior is waaayyyy better than our cars.

Our dashboard=hard everywhere
BRZ Limited=soft everywhere(I remember poking it with my finger tips)

Our door panel is 100% hard minus the leather in the middle part
BRZ Limited door panel is 50% hard.

I actually molested a BRZ at a auto show just to make sure it was a upgrade over our cars.

RSX MSRP $24,400
BRZ Limited $27,500

This car makes our car look like shit IMHO and ask anybody here and they will tell you I am not a BRZ fanboy one bit.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

You know, a LOTUS ELISE and EXIGE costs more than three times this car, and has LESS toys for comfort or ear-blasting audio system...
And that's a proper sports car also. because both FR-S and those Lotus cars have everything a sports car NEEDS to have, and FRS a few more to make life a little more useful.

My old coworker's shifter snapped off in his Lotus Elise at Watkins Glen, this was a pretty common issue in the 05-06 cars. That thing was 50 grand and had some of the shoddiest build quality I have ever seen regarding fit and finish. Still a great car.

[eriktherod]

Aw damn, Watkins Glen is a killer track too!