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Old 10-16-2019, 04:04 PM   #757
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'More than the best' is bestest!
And the versions mentioned at the end of the article:

Quote:
DOHC 32-valve flat-plane-crank V-8s starting at 600-plus horsepower and ranging up to a hybrid with nearly 1000 ponies
would be the bestestest and the bestestestest!

Personally I want a dark charcoal one with the Blackwing engine in it. A little orange striping and you have the Hawkmobile.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:00 PM   #758
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It can always be bestestester.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:15 PM   #759
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I too hoped for something right there with/ near a ferrari/mclaren/911. The brakes and understeer crushed that.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:33 PM   #760
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I too hoped for something right there with/ near a ferrari/mclaren/911. The brakes and understeer crushed that.

Well it's about on par with a 911 Carrera S according to motor trend. I think you're looking for the Z06, the base corvette never aimed that high.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:48 PM   #761
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Well it's about on par with a 911 Carrera S according to motor trend. I think you're looking for the Z06, the base corvette never aimed that high.
Near the 570s and 458 is what I meant. I think if it can smooth over some issues it, non Z model, can be there.


The 720s and f8 are clearly above the base corvette/non Z.
I love that the car made the leap to mid engine.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:42 PM   #762
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Near the 570s and 458 is what I meant. I think if it can smooth over some issues it, non Z model, can be there.


The 720s and f8 are clearly above the base corvette/non Z.
I love that the car made the leap to mid engine.
I understood that, I just think it's asking a lot for a base Corvette regardless of how how good it has gotten.

The base corvettes always targeted 911 Carrera/Audi R8/Hurracan levels of performance.
The GS should be up there with the 458/570s is, and then the Z06 will hit 750s/Aventador/812 Superfast+
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Old 10-17-2019, 12:09 PM   #763
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Given that the cars were pre-production prototypes, there could be headroom for even more from production cars.

Except that my inner skeptic thinks it could go the other way, that the test cars had tweaks making them excel in some areas that might not make it to production.

I'll have more confidence when randomly sampled production pieces are tested on road and dyno. Not discounting what GM did here, I think it's one the most exciting American cars produced in the past 50 years, and the best stuff is yet to come.

Now get back to work GM/UAW, thousands of pre-order peeps are grinding their dentures in anticipation.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:35 PM   #764
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I too hoped for something right there with/ near a ferrari/mclaren/911. The brakes and understeer crushed that.
This a joke? Let's be honest here. 99% of the posters on this forum don't have the driving talent to realize, at the limit, which of those two cars has better handling or brakes. Nevermind a BASE 911 costs $100,000.

Bench racing with your head in the clouds is just silly.
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Old 10-23-2019, 11:41 AM   #765
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I don't usually pay much attention to conspiracy theories, but there's at least a little smoke around this one.

Too many variables to say which numbers are accurate and I'll give the benefit of the doubt to GM since they went to the expense of SAE certification testing, but still...

One of the preproduction prototype cars used by Motor Trend, maybe others, was dyno tested and the results are, well, you decide:

How Much Power Does the 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Really Make? We Take it to the Dyno and Find Out

A lot more, it turns out

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...8-power-dyno/?

The upside is that GM is understating output. The downside is that ringers were provided to testers. We'll see when a production piece is tested.
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:43 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by Atmo View Post
I don't usually pay much attention to conspiracy theories, but there's at least a little smoke around this one.

Too many variables to say which numbers are accurate and I'll give the benefit of the doubt to GM since they went to the expense of SAE certification testing, but still...

One of the preproduction prototype cars used by Motor Trend, maybe others, was dyno tested and the results are, well, you decide:

How Much Power Does the 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Really Make? We Take it to the Dyno and Find Out

A lot more, it turns out

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...8-power-dyno/?

The upside is that GM is understating output. The downside is that ringers were provided to testers. We'll see when a production piece is tested.
It's definitely all gearing/test procedures. Dyno's are notoriously unreliable and comparing two different dynos are apples to oranges.
Unless the motor trend staff missed a form of FI there's no way that engine can effeciently make that much power. (Big ol' cam aside, but the lumpy idle and poor low rpm response would be a dead giveaway).


Jason Cammisa sumarized this quite well in an instagram post. This discussion already came up in the 86 vs C8 thread too.



" Verified


The C8 Corvette Stingray does NOT make 650 hp! ⁣

A certain media outlet published a story today that they dyno'ed one and got more than 500 hp at the wheels... calculating back to 650 hp at the crank.⁣

This isn't possible. 650 hp from 6.2 liters of displacement can't happen with at only 6500 rpm without forced induction. ⁣

Horsepower is a function of torque x rpm... and there's a maximum torque-per-displacement (otherwise known as BMEP, or Brake Mean Effective Pressure) that's vastly exceeded by Motor Trend's dyno runs. ⁣

MT's 630 lb-ft number suggests the LT2 makes 17.2 bar BMEP. The most efficient naturally aspirated engines are around 13. The LT2 is SAE rated at 12.9.⁣

Did it have turbos on it that no one saw? I suspect not... but they sure didn't show up in acceleration testing...⁣

Here's the real reason I know the dyno results are invalid. See the screen-shot on image 2.

This is my acceleration simulator. My nerdiness knows no boundaries, but I've been using this calculator since the early 1990s. ⁣

I inputted a DynoJet plot from a 7-speed manual Z51 C7 I found on the Internet... 417 hp and 415 lb-ft at the wheels. Then I plugged in the C8's actual weight, gearing, tire size, and I estimated drag coefficient and frontal area.⁣

The numbers (in black, on the right) line up almost exactly with the testing results @roadandtrack got (in red) - within ~0.3s all the way to 150 mph.⁣

The most damning is top speed, which calculates to 182 mph. Chevrolet claims 184 mph for the Z51 C8. I'd expect a couple mph higher with the C8's LT2 engine (495 hp instead of the C7's 460 that I used here.)⁣

If the thing really made 650 hp, top speed would be vastly higher. Like, 200+ mph.⁣

MT's dyno piece doesn't pass science muster. I'm disappointed that they published it — something was clearly broken on that dyno. They should have brought it elsewhere and re-tested. ⁣

Or at least realized that the numbers didn't line up with the reality of their tests. ⁣"
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:55 PM   #767
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Right, there's a thread on Corvette Forum about this, over 240 posts so far. Comments are roughly a third like yours, another third suggesting GM shenanigans including one from a 20-year power train engineer who said they routinely provide tweaked examples to testers, and another third like mine giving GM credit for SAE certification.

It makes for lively debate but I'll withhold judgement until a production piece is tested.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:52 AM   #768
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Right, there's a thread on Corvette Forum about this, over 240 posts so far. Comments are roughly a third like yours, another third suggesting GM shenanigans including one from a 20-year power train engineer who said they routinely provide tweaked examples to testers, and another third like mine giving GM credit for SAE certification.

It makes for lively debate but I'll withhold judgement until a production piece is tested.
They do provide tweaked examples. Been common for.. ever. But it won't be a tweaked example making that much power. Not really possible without a lot of engine airflow modifications which should have been very obvious.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:11 AM   #769
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They do provide tweaked examples. Been common for.. ever. .
This. Does anyone really believe that if rather than going to Hertz and renting it or go buy it directly off a dealer lot, you depend on manufacturers to provide you "production units" that they really are random off the factory floor examples?

Hell, manufacturers cheat on federal safety and emissions where there are potentially millions of dollars in damages if caught, why wouldn't they tweak things for a car review?
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:57 PM   #770
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They do provide tweaked examples. Been common for.. ever. But it won't be a tweaked example making that much power. Not really possible without a lot of engine airflow modifications which should have been very obvious.
Right, it's described in depth at the Corvette forum. Consensus, FWIW, seems to be that the SAE methodology is conservative compared to the methods of magazine testers with variation in dyno calibration accounting for the difference.

I guess the ZL1 tweaks, if any, didn't do much. Most owners duplicate or better Chevy claims.
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