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Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs


View Poll Results: Have you had an issue with your Direct Injection System?
I have had a DI issue and was fixed under warranty (Subaru) 10 12.35%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was fixed under warranty (Subaru) 2 2.47%
I have had a DI issue and was fixed under warranty (Toyota) 31 38.27%
I have had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was fixed under warranty (Toyota) 3 3.70%
I have had a DI issue and denied warranty by (Subaru) 7 8.64%
I have had a DI issue and denied warranty by (Toyota) 14 17.28%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was Denied warranty (Subaru) 8 9.88%
I had a DI issue that caused Engine Failure and was Denied warranty (Toyota) 6 7.41%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2013, 02:47 AM   #71
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You reported on another forum that you were running an aftermarket tune on track when your problem started. You stated that you were having that shop flash it back to stock before taking it in for your warranty claim. I'd say your damn lucky Toyota put a new motor in your car. Don't you think the AM tune would be good info to include here? Your giving the impression that a stock setup failed, when in fact, you had a local tuner messing around with your ECU prior to your problem. As a matter of fact, I have a friend that lost a NC Miata motor running a tune from the same guy, and you were informed of that in the same thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by track_warrior View Post
Ok guys, well as we all know the direct injectors on our cars does are not taking the heat well. My engine died at 4,000 miles and got replaced under warranty. I know of a couple more engine failures out there and many injector problems. I wanted to post this thread to see how many of us are having Direct Injection issues with our cars since some people are getting warranties denied or manufacturers are ignoring the issue. It would also be great to post and describe your issue below.


Here is the document from my dealer when they replaced the engine clearly stating a direct injector as the root of the problem. Makes sense, injector fails piston gets hot and boom you have a hole in there.

If you have not had an issue, please dont vote! I do encourage anybody that has had a DI issue to vote as we are trying to get as much info to have this issue fixed by Toyota and Subaru.


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Old 06-12-2013, 12:34 PM   #72
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What octane are you running? E10? Any track time? Miles on your car?
Running pumpgas. Never anything less than 93. No track time just spirited driving time to time. 7700mi
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #73
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@phm14 I don't approve of your picture, she's got too much clothes on.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:05 PM   #74
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We need a "I had my injector and seals replace by a 3rd party because Subaru refused to" category. Here is what my mechanic found when he pulled my injectors:


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Old 06-13-2013, 08:43 AM   #75
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We need a "I had my injector and seals replace by a 3rd party because Subaru refused to" category. Here is what my mechanic found when he pulled my injectors:


Well shit! That doesn't look good. I plan on taking my car to Subaru soon for the popping noise but it sounds like they're not going to do shit about it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:18 AM   #76
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We need a "I had my injector and seals replace by a 3rd party because Subaru refused to" category. Here is what my mechanic found when he pulled my injectors:


How much did your third party mechanic charge?
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:52 AM   #77
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My mechanic charged $350 to replace the seals - labor only.
The Subaru dealer quoted me $800 - labor only.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:04 AM   #78
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My mechanic charged $350 to replace the seals - labor only.
The Subaru dealer quoted me $800 - labor only.
Thanks. Did you happen to see how long it took him to remove the manifold and injectors to inspect them? I'd like to do this on my own if it's not too difficult.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:59 PM   #79
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Thanks. Did you happen to see how long it took him to remove the manifold and injectors to inspect them? I'd like to do this on my own if it's not too difficult.
I wasn't around when they tore it down but within a couple hours they called with the news.

Putting the seals on was a real pain. I gave them eight and they spent two hours and several seals trying to recover the pitted injector. After this we decided the mating surface was too damaged so we punted and just order a new injector with factory installed seals.

On the other three injectors they worked out a heating, cooling, and silicon lube strategy that seemed to work well.

Last edited by romin; 06-13-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:55 PM   #80
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There is a software update that helps prevent the issue from occurring. The only way for sure to gets the fix in the US is to buy a tune that includes it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
Yes it can, it seems to be happening due the heat from knock/donation during very certain conditions (quickly shifting gears at high rpm). There is a transient ignition map for this and is what is adjusted in the newer software.

I really don't get why everyone is freaking out about this. Do people not remember the cel/cam problem our cars first had, go look in the stickied thread, there were 200+ cases ranging from small fixes to new engines but now we don't hear much about it anymore because it was dealt with, changes were made and now it's not really an issue.

There have only been ~12 members on here that have had seal problems so far. There are 25,000 86s on the road... let Toyota and Subaru deal with the problem just like the last cel problem.

You all bought a brand new platform, with a brand new engine and now lots of you are up up arms that everything isn't perfect from the get go. Everything goes through updates, changes, service bulletins, recalls, that's the trade off for hopping to a new platform right away.

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Originally Posted by 2forme View Post
Carbonblue is right. I know someone with the issue who doesn't drive his car in the manner described. He's not on here but you can send me the questions and I will call him.
This knocking shouldnt be causing the seals to fail especially in a new car, knocking should blow up the engine before ANY kind of injector seal should fail... just saying...
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:06 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonBLUE View Post
This knocking shouldnt be causing the seals to fail especially in a new car, knocking should blow up the engine before ANY kind of injector seal should fail... just saying...
It depends on where the unintended ignition occurs in the piston cycle. If it happens after spark, before full burn (pinging, knocking) it can be harmless in small doses.

If it happens BEFORE spark.... well, that's when chunks of blocks go missing.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:08 PM   #82
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It depends on where the unintended ignition occurs in the piston cycle. If it happens after spark, before full burn (pinging, knocking) it can be harmless in small doses.

If it happens BEFORE spark.... well, that's when chunks of blocks go missing.
during the intake cycle is the best.... bye bye intake manifold! lol
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:11 PM   #83
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Quote:
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during the intake cycle is the best.... bye bye intake manifold! lol
Warning: Danger to Manifold?
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #84
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Warning: Danger to Manifold?
i knew someone would get this...

this is what ive gotten from skimming the other threads

1 popping noise is first recognized on cold starts (for most people)
since the engine isn't warmed up. Everything has not expanded with heat.
This is a tell tail sign that the part was manufactured improperly because the seal is in fact not 100% sealing the combustion chamber. The part should function properly whether or not the engine is at running temperature. Cold start after cold start, these seals become more damaged and the noise is pressure getting past the seal into the area which the injectors sit. The damaged seals soon begin to fail at operating temperatures and the popping noise is now present when the engine reaches its factory redline.

2 Factory redline. This is a point at which, but not the engines maximum, where the engine crosses between safe running conditions into an rpm range that is considered "damaging" to the engine. A fuel cutoff or spark cutoff is put in place to keep us out of the danger zone. Running the car to redline puts more stress on the engine, yes, but it is still within what the manufacture deems the engines safe operating range. If the redline was deemed unsafe, they would set a lower rev limit. Generally speaking, we as consumers put faith in the factory redline. The car is advertised to go into that range so we must consider it ok to go there. If the company knowingly set a higher redline than what is safe and engine failures occure from running the engine to the factory redline, the company has done false advertising to it's consumers. At this point it is no longer the consumers fault and the cost should be absorbed by the manufacture.

3 This is a BRAND NEW CAR, things fail on older cars with age. Any problems on a NEW car that can be replicated by many other cars driven under vastly different conditions (hard, racing, or putting around town) then it needs to be fixed under warranty. Parts aren't made perfectly, but are made under a tolerance range. It is not the consumer's fault that the manufacture looked over fully testing the part.

for example. (this is for example purposes only)

lets say the tolerance measurements for a specific part is. .987734 in - .987730 in. (Part A)

and the part it couples with has a measurement of .987740 in. -.987742 in. (Part B)

What if they only tested the tolerance ranges of A(.987734 in - .987730 in.) with 1 specific size of Part B (.987740 in.)

they would not have recognized a failure due to incomplete testing. (example only used 1 engine to test the range of tolerances for the injector seals)

maybe by chance everyone that had a failure had a part A with measurements of .987730 in. and a part B .987742. That gap, no matter how minuscule, slowly fails over hundreds of millions of revolutions (which isnt much engine time)

we might be seeing low problem rates because of how rare the chances might be, but if they had adjusted the allowable tolerance to a smaller amount, then no failures would have been present.

further more, there are people who have bought the car that arent on the forums so we dont hear about it, and then there are those who are on the forums who have no idea what the noise is and dont care to look into it... why? because its a new car and shouldnt have problems anyways.

A broken part will last a long time if the car isnt driven hard but the part is still BROKEN. Thats why some of us wont see the injector seal problem till much later, but its still broken/manufactured incorrectly.

my camry has a thrown rod bearing, i can hear it every time i start the car with the loud "BANG BANG BANG" for the first 1/2 second, but its been running like that for 20k miles...
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