2014 Ford Fiesta ST vs 2014 Subaru BRZ

[Timmy_Jones]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

I love the idea of this car, but when I sit in it, the high ride height, the acres of plastic on the top the dashboard, the ridiculously oblique and huge windscreen, the minivan view forward (no car bits in sight) - no thanks.

Yes, yes and more yes. Exactly my thoughts. Only gripe about the car that others dont talk about, enough. The seating position and pilot's view!

[Timmy_Jones]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Take s few turns in each car and you'll understand which one is the sports car.

I love my car dearly, but I'm not sure what you mean by this? Stock for stock I could almost see the Fiesta ST handling better...unless you mean steering feel and feedback to the driver, in which case I give the nod to the twins.

Fiesta has better tires and suspension even felt a bit stiffer to me (maybe an illusion from seating position).

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by Marloon

Recently I have sat and driven both the FR-S/BR-Z and the Fiesta ST. I personally found the Fiesta ST to be more fun to drive because of it's TURBO engine. The feeling of torque when you get pressed into the recaro seats is definitely unique compared to the lackluster FR-S Boxer engine.

Now just add 5psi or so to the twins and it will rocket away from the ST and their tiny turbos spooling 15-20psi.

Even just add an NA tune and the car is much, much more powerful and responsive.

I personally have ran 14.6 @ 97 with the above sub $1k mod. Fiesta ST runs similar stock see link.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...st_first_test/

[Timmy_Jones]

What is wrong with the Fiesta ST: Front Wheel Drive, Ugly, absolutely horrific seating position

What is wrong with the twins: It's slow

Which is easier to remedy? Case closed...I am sick of being nice to the Fiesta ST guys who crap all over the 86 platform.

Anyone ever disliked a car because of the crowd who drives them?

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

Only gripe about the car that others dont talk about, enough. The seating position and pilot's view!

It's not as bad as my Abarth.

Originally Posted by stevo585

Now just add 5psi or so to the twins and it will rocket away from the ST and their tiny turbos spooling 15-20psi.

Even just add an NA tune and the car is much, much more powerful and responsive.

I personally have ran 14.6 @ 97 with the above sub $1k mod. Fiesta ST runs similar stock see link.

So if we're going to just talk pure speed, you spend 5k on boost on your 25k car, making it now 30k invested, so you can rocket away from a 21k car.

Ok... I wonder what they can do with 9k in modifications to bridge that $ gap. I get wanting to compare, but everyone always wants to compare modded to stock and not apples to apples.

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

What is wrong with the Fiesta ST: Front Wheel Drive, Ugly, absolutely horrific seating position

What is wrong with the twins: It's slow

Which is easier to remedy? Case closed...I am sick of being nice to the Fiesta ST guys who crap all over the 86 platform.

Anyone ever disliked a car because of the crowd who drives them?

Those are all subjective though.

I don't dislike a car because of its driver. I dislike the driver. Generally said driver has an attitude that his or her choice of vehicle was/is the second coming of car-Jesus. And it's normally not.

[SHOspazz92]

Originally Posted by hmong337

I guess it depends on what kind of "fun" you're going for. For a street car, the Ford ST and Mazda3turbo's are hard to beat for a brand new car and very space friendly. Hitting boost always puts a smile on anybody's face. But they aren't in the same league as the 86 when talking performance and sports cars. Not even close.

Cross shopping between the two is like going fine dining compared to fast food.

Based one what? Because one is FWD and one is RWD? That argument I think may have been valid years ago when OEM suspension in most FWD econo box cars were....well, garbage. The BRZ has a superior driving position and a far superior feeling transmission....and...that's about it. Both cars are sure footed and a TON of fun to drive. It's just as easy to get the ST to rotate as it is the BRZ (Granted, you do it in a different way). However, what has always showed me how close these two cars are is watching them go at it on course (Autocross). It's always amazing to watch cars with drivers of similar ability run times that are neck and neck. What's impressive about that is that the Fiesta is in a "Lower" class then the twins (GS vs CS). Now keep in mind, I'm referring to cars that are kept mostly stock. Mod for Mod I think the two cars would remain close in terms of speed and handling. However...at some point the ST I think would hit a wall until some SERIOUS tire was thrown on to the front wheels, as well as a true differential being added.

Both cars are great. But like many said, the driving position and over all low, hunkered down feel of the twins can make or break a car for some folks. In that case, I can see why man would prefer the twins over the ST Fiesta.

-Sam

[SHOspazz92]

And just so I'm clear. I understand that the twins are a "true" 2+2 sports car. RWD, MT, 100% driver oriented. And the Focus is just a "Sporty" economy car. My point is that both cars are incredibly fun to drive. Stock for Stock, Both cars are also incredibly close to each-other in terms of capability (With a real "winner" coming down to the driver).

-Sam

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by SHOspazz92

Based one what? Because one is FWD and one is RWD? That argument I think may have been valid years ago when OEM suspension in most FWD econo box cars were....well, garbage. The BRZ has a superior driving position and a far superior feeling transmission....and...that's about it. Both cars are sure footed and a TON of fun to drive. It's just as easy to get the ST to rotate as it is the BRZ (Granted, you do it in a different way). However, what has always showed me how close these two cars are is watching them go at it on course (Autocross). It's always amazing to watch cars with drivers of similar ability run times that are neck and neck. What's impressive about that is that the Fiesta is in a "Lower" class then the twins (GS vs CS). Now keep in mind, I'm referring to cars that are kept mostly stock. Mod for Mod I think the two cars would remain close in terms of speed and handling. However...at some point the ST I think would hit a wall until some SERIOUS tire was thrown on to the front wheels, as well as a true differential being added.

Both cars are great. But like many said, the driving position and over all low, hunkered down feel of the twins can make or break a car for some folks. In that case, I can see why man would prefer the twins over the ST Fiesta.

-Sam

That's the wall I am talking about. Remember the fiesta was never designed as a sports car. The frs/brz is! You can throw any crazy amount of horsepower into a econobox and do up the suspension till you've exhausted all options, in the end, you're still building off a platform that is NOT a sportscar. Can't spit shine a turd, but you can sure make'em go fast in a straight line. I'd get a v8 for that. For handling, I'll side with a sportecar chassis. Not some hopped up econobox with 18375729 hp.

[SHOspazz92]

Originally Posted by hmong337

That's the wall I am talking about. Remember the fiesta was never designed as a sports car. The frs/brz is! You can throw any crazy amount of horsepower into a econobox and do up the suspension till you've exhausted all options, in the end, you're still building off a platform that is NOT a sportscar. Can't spit shine a turd, but you can sure make'em go fast in a straight line. I'd get a v8 for that. For handling, I'll side with a sportecar chassis. Not some hopped up econobox with 18375729 hp.

Trust me, I know all about polishing a Turd! My Autocross is a shining example, but a lot of clever "engineering" has really turned it in to a car that far exceeds the perceived "wall" and expectations. Still, I agree with you.

However, as far as the BRZ vs ST argument...well, It's my opinion that 90% of the owners will never modify the cars to a level where that "wall" will be hit. Let alone drive the car (or learn to drive the cars) hard enough to fully exploit the limits of either car's chassis. For that 90%, either car is a fine choice. For the remaining 10%...well, that group of people generally have a full understanding of what they are getting in to in the first place...and probably know where and where not either car will perform better then the other.

-Sam

[thill]

Being honest, I really liked the Fiesta ST I drove recently. I liked it more than the Focus ST I drove late last year. It was a really fun car to drive. I liked the power better than the FT86, it felt faster to me. On the flip side, it really did not feel like I was driving a sports car like the FT86. Just like the Foscus ST it feels like you are sitting up much higher and I did not feel as connected to the Fiesta ST like I was in my BRZ. And not that looks are the primary reason for buying a car, I think the FT86 is a much better looking car that will age much better.

I think a used Fiesta ST will be a bargain once you can find one for $15K or less.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by SHOspazz92

Trust me, I know all about polishing a Turd! My Autocross is a shining example, but a lot of clever "engineering" has really turned it in to a car that far exceeds the perceived "wall" and expectations. Still, I agree with you.

However, as far as the BRZ vs ST argument...well, It's my opinion that 90% of the owners will never modify the cars to a level where that "wall" will be hit. Let alone drive the car (or learn to drive the cars) hard enough to fully exploit the limits of either car's chassis. For that 90%, either car is a fine choice. For the remaining 10%...well, that group of people generally have a full understanding of what they are getting in to in the first place...and probably know where and where not either car will perform better then the other.

-Sam

You're right on many points. If I wanted a ballsy people hauler, Ford ST would be the way to go. I certainly like them in that respect. But I wanted a sportscar platform. Somehing I can grow with. I don't care whether it had 120hp. In fact, I am happy that my FRS only has 200hp so I can fully learn how to drive it. You want more power, simple! You can easily add more. I sure hope you'll be able to drive it properly.

Sure the Ford ST is faster off the show room floor. But that doesn't make it the better car. Certainly not the platform to go with. NOW, if they only made that badboy with awd...

[jebuwh]

Originally Posted by SHOspazz92

Based one what? Because one is FWD and one is RWD? That argument I think may have been valid years ago when OEM suspension in most FWD econo box cars were....well, garbage. The BRZ has a superior driving position and a far superior feeling transmission....and...that's about it. Both cars are sure footed and a TON of fun to drive. It's just as easy to get the ST to rotate as it is the BRZ (Granted, you do it in a different way). However, what has always showed me how close these two cars are is watching them go at it on course (Autocross). It's always amazing to watch cars with drivers of similar ability run times that are neck and neck. What's impressive about that is that the Fiesta is in a "Lower" class then the twins (GS vs CS). Now keep in mind, I'm referring to cars that are kept mostly stock. Mod for Mod I think the two cars would remain close in terms of speed and handling. However...at some point the ST I think would hit a wall until some SERIOUS tire was thrown on to the front wheels, as well as a true differential being added.

Both cars are great. But like many said, the driving position and over all low, hunkered down feel of the twins can make or break a car for some folks. In that case, I can see why man would prefer the twins over the ST Fiesta.

-Sam

Have you looked at national times for gs vs cs? There is quite a larger gap there. The twins are placed in the same group with the 370z. The fiesta is a fun car... But it gets its butt whooped in autocross.

However they are a hoot to drive. Great daily driver. But! I still prefer the twins as far as a performance car goes.

[GT86meMR2]

A Fiesta ST is faster where? there are alot of them here and stock for stock they are around the same in straight line performance.. they both arent that fast but the ST feels a little quicker because of the boost...

[SHOspazz92]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

Have you looked at national times for gs vs cs? There is quite a larger gap there. The twins are placed in the same group with the 370z. The fiesta is a fun car... But it gets its butt whooped in autocross.

However they are a hoot to drive. Great daily driver. But! I still prefer the twins as far as a performance car goes.

Admittedly, I have not been keeping up with some of the nationals stuff lately. Just what I've seen a more then a few local events. In all fairness, our local club has the 3rd largest presence at nationals and quite a national and regional champs. So a lot of time gauging stuff off of locals works out well. Maybe not in this case, so I'll take your word for it.