The need for an oil cooler when going FI (Temperature Data Inside)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

I gotta say man, that's a knifes edge setup. Since you have a pretty serious track car and seat time, you really might want to look at changing that up. I feel like long-term you'll have issues. I guess the advantage is you change the oil A LOT but still man, 13+ AFR and 270F temps sound like a bad mix

I have 129k on my engine, and change my oil every 10,000 miles.

Going back to high temps on oil, I don't ever recall seeing an oil temp related turbo failure on the WRX or STI (which is where I have the most turbo experience). Ring lands... are another story.

[Jason@DSG]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I have 129k on my engine, and change my oil every 10,000 miles.

Going back to high temps on oil, I don't ever recall seeing an oil temp related turbo failure on the WRX or STI (which is where I have the most turbo experience). Ring lands... are another story.

They both have OEM oil cooling though. Goddam ring lands haha!!

Either way, I hope your car holds man it's just to knifes edge. For the cost of a thermostatic cooler (at least for an FI application), it's worth the peace of mind.

On that note, peace out go hawks go

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

They both have OEM oil cooling though.

Even with that OEM cooling, 260F is not uncommon, and 280F is not unheard of in hot conditions. We still do not have lubrication related failures at those temps.

Oil temp is oil temp, regardless of sources of the heat, or dissipation.

[Reaper]

high capacity oil pan seems to be overlooked here. 8 quart pans make a huge difference.

[JerryMichaels7]

I think we all are missing the point? OP is claiming failure will happen so you must buy another greddy loooking knock off or your engine will blow....like crawford did with 200 hp N/A motor saying you have to get a built motor to run that much HP

[Jason@DSG]

Originally Posted by JerryMichaels7

I think we all are missing the point? OP is claiming failure will happen so you must buy another greddy loooking knock off or your engine will blow....like crawford did with 200 hp N/A motor saying you have to get a built motor to run that much HP

In the OP's defense, he's actually just saying that its a good idea with hotter summer temps and increased heat from FI to run an oil cooler. He never said you will blow your engine.

Also, the SBD kit is a 20g which is better than the GReddy and AVO which are 18g that make a ton of heat. As for piping, all turbo kits pretty look similar in some way or another.

[Sportsguy83]

This is the second time I see @Jason@DSG being chewed up.... Listen, whatever facts he has used some have not liked about his message, the point of his message still stands...

It is very good practice to run an oil cooler on this car N/A, not because it will explode, but because it does run high temps (opening the hood on the car in the summer after using it for a while even N/A meant almost hand burns).

Additionally, (again doesn't matter what facts are used the point still holds), turbo charged engines will see elevated Oil temps. I have a friend here whose Turbo but no cooling upgrades, and on the cruise on his commute he regularly sees 230 F. I think no one can argue 20 degrees lower Oil temp will only contribute towards the longevity of the engine, aside for the supposed "no timing pulled under 230 F".

So to summarize MY OPINION and one that I think follows Jason closely:

N/A car is good practice to add oil cooler
N/A track car required oil cooling

Turbo car for engine longevity sake, oil cooler to help offset the added heat provided by turbo, downpipe, etc, Track and not tracked.


Now let's all sing long


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[Model Citizen]

I added the oem sti oil cooler.

It doesn't help peak temps a ton but it does take the edge off (roughly 10 degrees), but it makes a very nice difference when it comes to recovery time compared to no cooler, and was cheap.

No worries about overcooling.

Used it on track and autox in last week or so.

[MagicBobert]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

I have no concerns, it's your cars. I'm just letting you know the truth

This kind of arguing is extremely passive aggressive. "Do what you want man, but what I'm saying is the truth". C'mon.

Nobody will be convinced by anecdotes and "trust me". They will be convinced by data. Three highway pulls in a single day and handful of stories about blowing engines is not data.

If you've got actual data, logged over time, with detailed logs and notes about temperature-related engine wear, by all means please share it.

[cdrazic93]

The website I posted that @Hawaiian quoted had actual data in it...

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Jason@DSG

For example, the Ralliart I drive is turbocharged and Mitsu cheaped out and didn't put an oil cooler. Albeit these cars run at 20-24psi, I've had at least 10 busted turbos and a handful of lifted head gaskets because of oil temps getting way too high.

Because Mitsubishi bro, not because oil temps.

[mike the snake]

The oil is not working as effectively as it can at low temps.

When I researched oil when I raced my Porsche, 210-220 was what you were shooting for.

Too low of temps is not good, 180 is too low. Oil is thicker that it's supposed to run, and water/condensation never gets boiled off.

Too high is bad too, but too high is what, maybe 250-260, 270 maybe?

From the OP's "data", I'd conclude that for street use, oil cooler is optional. I'd determine the need by how much hard running was done, because if the temps never got above 180 with the cooler I'd say don't use one.

One thing that no one has mentioned is that even if you do run a cooler, you can tape it over to keep temps up until needed. My Porsche race car had an oil cooler that was bigger than most intercoolers, and I taped off 75% of it to get temps UP to 210 on cold days.

For FI, the cooler again will help if oil temps go above 220, otherwise I'd say not needed IMO.

Unless the turbo itself has a dedicated cooling system, the argument of cooler running turbo with the oil cooler is moot because the turbos use engine oil, so as long as engine oil temps are correct, the turbo should be good to go.

Adding a cooler to make the engine oil run at 180 so the turbo gets cooler oil doesn't make sense to me.

Even thermostatted oil coolers can keep temps too low.

SO, for me, bottom line is I want my oil temps at 210-220, and even a bit higher is OK.

Adding an oil cooler won't hurt anything as long as temps of 210-220 are achieved.

If temps run above 230-240 often, then yes I'd run oil cooler for sure.

[sw20kosh]

Do we have enough data on the OEM forester oil cooler? Does it work for tracking with FI or is it too small?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Do we have enough data on the OEM forester oil cooler? Does it work for tracking with FI or is it too small?

@glamcem ran it and still saw 260F. I'd say it's too small.