Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

So yea, that is exactly what Audi does like I was describing.



I think he wants variable boost levels like turbos can have or variable maps like on motorcycles. He can have a low boost pulley then map for E85 and have only two power levels, or have a high boost pulley and run a low boost 91 tune and e85 tune and a high boost e85 tune for those times he really wants to push the setup like at the track and have three power mods. It seems silly to run a high boost pully on 91 because there are little gains to be safely had with all the timing and tuning adjustments required.

Unfortunately not quite that simple, because the only charged pipes are the runners from the SC to the block inlet

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unfortunately not quite that simple, because the only charged pipes are the runners from the SC to the block inlet

You mean variable boost is not possible? I don’t get your point

[PhyrraM]

Originally Posted by Pyrium

Okay, it is getting serious. I have a quote for this and I am about to pull the trigger. Did anyone get it with the boost controller and e85 kit from Harrop? Also, does anyone have the Harrop Oil Cooler?

This setup was not available when I bought mine. I chose the Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel kit on the stock Harrop (low boost) pulley. I have no complaints. I rarely run E85 (3 tanks in 15K miles).

This is something I might investigate for myself later when Delicious (or local affiliates like CSG and TRL) have some hands on with it. The main advantage I can see (for the street) isn't the outright power, but the ability to run lower boost at low (rod bearing killing) RPMs and then increase boost at the safer higher RPMs.

I would talk over your options with your chosen tuner and the supercharger vendor as local support can be a serious advantage if things don't go exactly as planned or you run into issues.

[PhyrraM]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unfortunately not quite that simple, because the only charged pipes are the runners from the SC to the block inlet

Not sure I'm following. A duty cycle solenoid controlling the S/C bypass should bleed off boost to the inlet. What am I missing?

[CSG Mike]

Whoops, for some reason, I thought I was in the other TVS1320 thread.

Yes, you can control boost via the solenoid, up to the max, but unless you're running more than 9psi peak, you wouldn't want to reduce boost at lower RPMs; it's not a TON of boost, and it's not a huge increase in stress. Of course, if you want to, you can.

Based on the documentation available, it seems the solenoid is just set to a pre-set bleed amount, so the end effect is that of using a larger pulley, while utilizing a smaller actual pulley, rather than real time boost control like a turbo.

Now, I'm sure based on what I've seen, you could, in reality, alter boost targets and change the solenoid duty cycle via other parameters to simulate the effect of using an EBC on a turbo car, e.g. having a rising rate boost, and lowering low/mid range torque to have delivery similar to that of a centrifugal supercharger. But, if you go through all that effort, why not buy a centrifugal instead?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Whoops, for some reason, I thought I was in the other TVS1320 thread.

Yes, you can control boost via the solenoid, up to the max, but unless you're running more than 9psi peak, you wouldn't want to reduce boost at lower RPMs; it's not a TON of boost, and it's not a huge increase in stress. Of course, if you want to, you can.

Based on the documentation available, it seems the solenoid is just set to a pre-set bleed amount, so the end effect is that of using a larger pulley, while utilizing a smaller actual pulley, rather than real time boost control like a turbo.

Now, I'm sure based on what I've seen, you could, in reality, alter boost targets and change the solenoid duty cycle via other parameters to simulate the effect of using an EBC on a turbo car, e.g. having a rising rate boost, and lowering low/mid range torque to have delivery similar to that of a centrifugal supercharger. But, if you go through all that effort, why not buy a centrifugal instead?

I think the idea is to just have more power levels. I don’t think he is trying to create a progressive boost setup or something else fancy like boost by gear, although that would be cool.

[PhyrraM]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I think the idea is to just have more power levels. I don’t think he is trying to create a progressive boost setup or something else fancy like boost by gear, although that would be cool.

I agree. I got sidetracked with possibilities. I think the intent is to be able to run safely on various fuels and power levels, and maximize boost levels for each, with one hardware setup...no pulley changes, etc.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PhyrraM

I agree. I got sidetracked with possibilities. I think the intent is to be able to run safely on various fuels and power levels, and maximize boost levels for each, with one hardware setup...no pulley changes, etc.

As long as the intent is to simulate a larger pulley, this would be totally viable. Maximizing the boost level of each type of fuel would mean getting a bit more complex with variable duty cycles on the solenoid, to ramp up boost as quickly as possible, and then maintain, or even vary it with RPM, to get the maximum possible boost for that given type of fuel. Heck, you could even have it pull boost dynamically, in theory, based on other parameters, like a turbo car, once you're commanding less boost than what is available (essentially, after 4k rpm, with a 20 psi pulley, on pump premium gas).

The downside is, even though you're not using the boost, you're still spinning the supercharger harder, and you will see a slight mpg penalty.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

As long as the intent is to simulate a larger pulley, this would be totally viable. Maximizing the boost level of each type of fuel would mean getting a bit more complex with variable duty cycles on the solenoid, to ramp up boost as quickly as possible, and then maintain, or even vary it with RPM, to get the maximum possible boost for that given type of fuel. Heck, you could even have it pull boost dynamically, in theory, based on other parameters, like a turbo car, once you're commanding less boost than what is available (essentially, after 4k rpm, with a 20 psi pulley, on pump premium gas).

The downside is, even though you're not using the boost, you're still spinning the supercharger harder, and you will see a slight mpg penalty.

I think the simple setup was the idea, but it would be interesting to discuss the possibility of doing boost by gear/rpm. Considering the glass nature of the transmission or the weaknesses of the FA20, I could see this being an attractive option for positive displacement superchargers.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

As long as the intent is to simulate a larger pulley, this would be totally viable. Maximizing the boost level of each type of fuel would mean getting a bit more complex with variable duty cycles on the solenoid, to ramp up boost as quickly as possible, and then maintain, or even vary it with RPM, to get the maximum possible boost for that given type of fuel. Heck, you could even have it pull boost dynamically, in theory, based on other parameters, like a turbo car, once you're commanding less boost than what is available (essentially, after 4k rpm, with a 20 psi pulley, on pump premium gas).

The downside is, even though you're not using the boost, you're still spinning the supercharger harder, and you will see a slight mpg penalty.

People have done this with centrifugal units I believe, running the centrifugal unit harder to bolster the low end, and bleeding off the top end to keep from overboosting the engine.

[Kodename47]

Could even pull boost based on knock as well...... just a thought.

Someone did suggest to me that you could do similar by limiting the throttle however, which is true. Also less expensive.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

People have done this with centrifugal units I believe, running the centrifugal unit harder to bolster the low end, and bleeding off the top end to keep from overboosting the engine.

All the time

[johan]

Boost control would be trivial on this setup. All you need is a standard 4-port Mac solenoid.

The stock BPV on this kit already has 2 ports. So there's no special hardware needed, just wiring for the solenoid, additional hose, and some Racerom setup.

You Run straight through on the solenoid to the existing line on the BPV, then run the alternate side to the line that is currently open on the BPV.

In the desired gear/rpm you dial in duty cycle to the mac solenoid and it'll send boost to the vacuum side of the BPV to force it open, thus reducing resultant boost to the manifold.

I did this setup on my PD supercharged 8thgen Civic back in 2011, worked fantastic. I went from having 11psi in 1st gear with terminal wheel spin, to 2-3psi and 100% traction in every gear. After I switched from a PD to a Centri, I actually added a turbosmart wastegate to the charge pipe and added BBG to that using the same methodology.

I didn't bother to do a setup like this on my BRZ because with the 245w tires I have, I always had 100% traction even in 1st gear.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Could even pull boost based on knock as well...... just a thought.

Someone did suggest to me that you could do similar by limiting the throttle however, which is true. Also less expensive.

Don't quote me on this, but I vaguely remember moto mike writing about doing this when tuning back those huge sprintex 335s on non built engines. I think it had to do with massaging both ignition timing and cam overlap/timing.

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