2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[gymratter]

but the Supra has never been a bespoke model like the R35 GTR. it has always been heavily based on a Celica and later on, the Soarer/SC.

[vh_supra26]

1st wreck.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

An interesting interview with Tada-san on the Supra came out today in Jalopnik. Once of the best tidbits released had nothing to do with the Supra, but the 86:

The best tidbit is that he's a hardcore Pokemon Go enthusiast.

Originally Posted by qcbaker

Interested to see how "what would you change about the 86" threads will play out now that Tada is on record as saying the boxer configuration is NOT for low CoG and just because its short enough to allow the car to be a 2+2.

He's also on the record in the past saying that it's to keep the car low. It's stupid to pin the engine choice on one aspect, there were lots of pros and cons to the FA20 (a rotary engine would also play into the 2+2 packaging which was also considered). I think it's fair to say that the technology exchange with Subaru regarding direct injection tuning increased the value of their investment in FHI vs. not sharing the technology that has become the foundation of Subaru's entire powertrain lineup at this point, so score a point for the bean counters as well as the hood height/cg, performance, emissions compliance, fuel economy, and packaging.

It would need to be front engined and rear wheel drive, but it would also have to be ‘cool’ and by that I mean low at the front. Yet all our Toyota engines are quite high and that would mean the car would have to have a high front end to pass pedestrian safety legislation, which wouldn’t be good for the aerodynamics, the looks or the ‘cool’.

“It quickly became clear that we would need a flat-four cylinder or a rotary engine for such a ‘cool’ sports car. And by coincidence, Toyota and Subaru had just announced a collaboration deal.

https://blog.toyota.co.uk/tada-how-t...eated-the-gt86


In any case the B58 is the closest thing to a modern 2JZ that exists and cramming it into a coupe and calling it a Supra is far from a stupid move on Toyota's part. I'm impressed they got the price that low (just over $50k) for the I6 Supra. My only complaint is that they're stuck with BMW's suspension design (Mac Strut front, multi-link non-coilover rear) which like Subaru's is surprisingly effective but far from ideal for a sporty car. But targeting the Cayman/Boxster which are also hopelessly committed to a similar suspension architecture means they don't have to live up to higher standards.

BMW/Toyota will play 'muscle car' to Porsche's mid-engined scapel, getting more power out of the B58 will be much easier than the Cayman/Boxster and it won't be too far behind in the dynamics department. My problem is, why spend $50k on the 330hp Z4 Supra when I can get 400 horsepower and a manual transmission for $60k with an M2 badge on the back? And if power isn't my thing and I'd rather have the handling I expect the mid-engined Cayman/Boxster to be more appealing, I suspect it falls into a no-mans land pretty quickly and sales fall off even sharper than the 86 which really doesn't have a direct competitor at all.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

My problem is, why spend $50k on the 330hp Z4 Supra when I can get 400 horsepower and a manual transmission for $60k with an M2 badge on the back? And if power isn't my thing and I'd rather have the handling I expect the mid-engined Cayman/Boxster to be more appealing, I suspect it falls into a no-mans land pretty quickly and sales fall off even sharper than the 86 which really doesn't have a direct competitor at all.

Easy. The M2 is not on the new CLAR architecture yet. Also:

M2 vs Supra
105.9" wheelbase vs 97.2" wheelbase
69.8" wide vs 73" wide
55.8" tall vs 50.8" tall
3,472 lbs vs 3,284 lbs

The Supra is going to be lower, wider, lighter, substantially more rigid with a lower CoG. I don't see the Supra as being in No Man's Land; instead, it has the potential to be the perfect blend of Cayman and M2 at a substantial discount. It also looks like nothing else on the road and doesn't have the badge snobbery associated with it as the German marques. I think Toyota has targeted their niche perfectly and it will hit their sales targets.

Personally, I would take this over a Cayman S in a heart beat. Yeah, mid-engine is cool and all, but the German badge penalty is real and at $70k CAD (to start), I sure as hell better get more than 4 cylinders under the hood. My next car is likely to either be the Supra or the 2021 STI once it moves over to SGP (or maybe a 2020 WRX STI if the SGP one is a massive screw up).

[Sasquachulator]

Everyone says that all the time.
Why get this when you can get that for the same or similar or just a bit more money?

the car's do not compete against each other directly, and they're different cars.
One's a ground up sports car (supra), the other is a hotted up compact car (M2).

Its the same thing as why get an 86 when you can get a faster more comfortable hot hatch for maybe less?

even if the ultimate capabilities will be greater for one over the other the driving experience will be a different.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

My next car is likely to either be the Supra or the 2021 STI once it moves over to SGP (or maybe a 2020 WRX STI if the SGP one is a massive screw up).

I have high hopes for the WRX/STi on the new SGP. My wide's car is a 17 Impreza on the platform and I can see some true potential in it for the performance versions.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have high hopes for the WRX/STi on the new SGP. My wide's car is a 17 Impreza on the platform and I can see some true potential in it for the performance versions.

Wide's huh? Psssh correcting me bout my Engrish

Joke a side, I'm interested in next WRX/STI as well. But I'm waiting for the damn Levorg to come to US

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Wide's huh? Psssh correcting me bout my Engrish

Joke a side, I'm interested in next WRX/STI as well. But I'm waiting for the damn Levorg to come to US

You have not met my wife! Wide is not out of the question.


I may not care about the new WRX if I can get my hands on one of those green 86.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You have not met my wife! Wide is not out of the question.

I may not care about the new WRX if I can get my hands on one of those green 86.

Yeah, Hakone 86 do looks nice... I need to see in person. Maybe I should fly to VA and check it out

[gymratter]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/int...t-launch.1760/

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qa3HydLJw[/ame]

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

the car's do not compete against each other directly, and they're different cars.
One's a ground up sports car (supra), the other is a hotted up compact car (M2).

I bet you'll be surprised how similar the Zupra is underneath compared to the rest of BMW's lineup, despite all the BMW/Toyota people peddling the "we built a real sports car!" line really hard, they did the same for the FRS/BRZ and it turned out that a bulk of the parts were slapped on from the Impreza/WRX parts bin. Expect the Z4 to pull the same trick from the 1-7 series cars just as the prior Z3/Z4 did, there's no way they pulled off a significant percentage of new design work given the price they're charging, where it's built, and the engine they're putting in it.

Hell I don't think it even has coilovers in the rear.
Edit: Jalopnik article from some time back comparing the Supra to the 3-series, definitely not coilover rear suspension, same part numbers on the stickers.
https://jalopnik.com/what-we-found-w...sup-1831800550


I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think the hype is overshadowing reality.

I mean come on, they're using the same engine they put in a friggin' Mini Cooper with the boost turned up. It's got the same tune they use for the 730i, super sporty roots on that one.


And by your measure, every M (except the M1) is a hotted up mass consumer car. I don't disagree with you, but that's what you're saying.

Originally Posted by unhappymeal

I don't see the Supra as being in No Man's Land; instead, it has the potential to be the perfect blend of Cayman and M2 at a substantial discount.

Hundreds of thousands of people bought into the 86 despite it being in a similar 'in between' position that a lot of people frowned upon, I have no doubt tens of thousands will like what the Zupra will have to offer just like you do, the compromise they chose just doesn't do it for me, and given that I'm no Supra fanboi it was likely never going to.



I'm curious what you think their sales targets are, the Cayman and Z4 never sold more than 4k cars per year in the US over the past decade. The Boxster did a little better but not much.

[gymratter]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/lis...it-point.1759/

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLUzAU1Urbo[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvmbi-HCLF0[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y-5KjuwgIs[/ame]

[m.box.design]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You have not met my wife! Wide is not out of the question.

R.I.P

[gymratter]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/vid...l-review.1764/

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAE67ui38ZI[/ame]