Call me a b**ch but i never tracked before =(

[Vincenttam]

Originally Posted by gily25

Maybe your next mod should be different tires...

Is this your first manual shift car? Sometimes when people are new to driving a stick they worry they aren't going fast enough for the next gear (car bucking or "dogging" from low rpms) so they accelerate too much as they upshift without realizing they're doing it. In a situation such as this, it was just a little too much acceleration for the terrain, had you been solidly in gear you would have eased back on the throttle when the slide first started (unless you were looking to drift). Keep this in mind next time it's raining, you may want to shift earlier to regulate your speed better.

Started driving manual in late September early October. I still have a long way to go.

[h4nh]

and this is why the brz comes with 200hp....

[Vincenttam]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Based on the pic you posted, I'm going to guess it was due to balding tires:



Your local tire or auto parts store, maybe even dealership, should offer tire tread gauges for you. I have a card that has a yellow CAUTION zone and red REPLACE TIRES zone. Cost 99 cents and very handy. Couldn't find a pic of it since I got it years ago and it was probably discontinued but it works something like this:



If you find it was due to your tires, replace them ASAP before something tragic happens.

Penny test time!!!

rear wheel


Front wheel


O{}O

[R.S-HawK]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

So you slid with the TC on... I find that hard to believe, I drive with TC off all the time and barely get the car to loose the back end when driving... only time I got somewhat loose from 2nd to 3rd I hammered the gas and it was raining, but all it did was shimmy a bit.

Getting the tail lose with TC on and the stock tires is very, very easily done...specially, in wet conditions. I noticed this within a week of purchasing the car and swapped for PSSs the next day.

[SoCal909]

Originally Posted by mush

I can barely get the tail end to fishtail with tc on...

yea yesterday it was raining, i had it in sport mode, i took a 90degree turn at about 30mph and did not have any give at all. maybe it's because i'm on brand new continental extreme contact dw's? idk

[Photonic]

what others are kinda saying.

No reason to be countersteering three times.

Find an empty parking lot and do "circles" get up to the middle of second gear and cruise in a circle near the middle of your rev range. Just act like you want to drive a constant radius circle ..make sure no poles will be in your way what soever...

Now as you are doing your circle (and the car is so underpowered and with so little front tire as well) kick the clutch and then slam the gas fully and hold it there and let go of the wheel. the wheel will spin through your hands faster than you can move the wheel by hand, this is what you want. ignore everything else.

Keep throttle full, kick the clutch ..let the wheel go once the ass starts to go. if you spin, thats fine ..clutch in ..start again. Just work on finding out that timing of "where" you can grab the wheel and catch the slide.

Dont worry about modulating your throttle until you get that down, if you have enough space ..you can keep the car sliding just fine at 100% throttle ...once you can "Catch" the slide and do a giant doughnut at full throttle .. "drifting" is just about balancing gas and steering together to change your lines ..right now you just want to maintain a slide ...

That is how I spent my first 6 months of sliding. Foot to the floor, working only with the steering wheel. My foot was either 100 on the gas, or 100% off the gas (and that was just to snap the car in the other direction) dont worry about that right now.

The worst thing you can do is snap off the throttle if you arent prepared. Take the spin and put both feet in, dont snap off the gas during a slide for a while unless you have the space to experiment.

Another thing to work on is making sure you are returning the wheel to center. When the rear end regains grip, the car will snap in the direction your wheels are facing.

You physicaly have to work the wheel back to center before the slide ends. I recommend starting to center the wheel before you think you have to because

1. If it is too soon, you will just "rotate" more, and you can catch the slide again by putting the steering back on.

2. If its too late however ..the car will start to snap in the wrong direction and this is how accidents usually happen ..

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Vincenttam

Penny test time!!!


O{}O

These are at the 4/32" limit for wet, maybe a tad below if you straighten the head. Your tires are good for dry weather but not wet. Studies show more tread in the rear aids in lateral stability (more prone to understeer than snap oversteer) so a front to rear tire rotation can get you by a bit longer. With your current setup, less tread in rear encourags rear to kick out in wet weather which sounds like exactly what happened.

[bkblitzed]

People that blame everything on tires just dont know anything. My primacys are at like 3/32's and they still have some what grip. That of course changes when i clutch kick on a lot of corners hehe

[Photonic]

In dry perfect conditions your tires are fine bkblitzed. But this is a hazard especially in the wet.

I lost my car for the time being due to tires as you describe in freezing rain, 22 degrees that night. Ran across a patch of thick water (most likely ice) and was 90 degrees starboard and my wheel was full lock once I let go before it seemed like anything even happened. The ABS and TCS was going like mad ... and I hated it. when you spin ..both feet in ..but the ABS was constantly making corners of the car "grip or slip' and "do this or that" and nothing was predictable. '

I wanted to go ballistic and sort the slide out by hand once My speed got lower ..but instead the "electronics" kept me going where it "thought" I wanted to go ...and kept sliding toward my wheels direction ... even when I returned the wheel to center ...and opposite lock towards the INSIDE .. no good .... The computer already made up its mind you can still feel one corner doing this ..one corner doing that ...brakes pulsating ..no wheels locking ...

had I been able to lock up all four wheels and go ballistic and recover manually ..this might have been different. I Lifted, and countered and tried to use the brakes once I saw how far I rotated. In my experience with older cars ..all I had to do was floor the brakes and loose my pride. Id slide in a straight line ..if no grip is available .the car will slide in a straight line, if all wheels are locked ..all tires have equal grip ..therefore no one set of tires has an advantage in rotating the car ..IE you slide straight along the axis of the cars highest momentum.

BUT ...NEVER .....drive on these types of tires to begin with ...that is the biggest mistake I made.

You should never tempt this situation.. and always drive on good tires.

[Demandred7]

A light sprinkling of rain can be worse than constant rain because it brings out the trapped oils embedded in the pavement.

If it was on the colder side of things, the back end will kick out easily with enough input into the throttle and steering.

The combination of the two would make it seem like the back end had caster wheels on it (been there done that).

Smoother less dramatic inputs would help out to start.

Not sure if maybe a lift off over steer is what happened here as well (been there done that as well).

I'm thinking tread depth is not really the issue here.

Walk the back end out enough times on purpose in a safe environment with all of the nannies off is a good idea for practice makes perfect. You may eventually get good enough that you'll want to turn the nannies off all of the time in safe environments.

And one last thing, for the love of God people, stop calling the stability control traction control. They are not the same thing. Traction control limits wheel spin, Stability control limits car spin. They can work together, but, they can be defeated separately and do different things. And yes, I realize that VSC Sport mode deactivates the traction control while simultaneously allowing more slip angle on the car before intervening - so some buttons interact with both.

[Rayme]

You did a good recovery, you didn't crash at least.

I had a similar accident with my 350z, I was on the on-ramp, gunning it, and when I was about to shift into 4 I slipped it back into 2nd gear while I was merging (empty roads thankfully), as the rear lost traction it started slidding around at 80-90 mph, I had to heavily counter-steer about 3-4 times with the tires screaming for mercy, while thinking "Yeah buddy, today is the day you're totalling your car". As the rear finally holds grip again, I slowly pulled over, and told my passenger, "Holly shiiiiiit". He had a redbull and didn't lost a drop, but his eyes..lol.

[Iand518]

Quickest (not painless) way to learn smooth shifting and wheel spin control. Buy an old 2-stroke dirt bike. You may injury yourself and break some 10 dollar levers, but you'll learn fast, and won't tear up your daily driver.
Seriously, upgrading to Michelin AS/3 tires will help rain traction.
Also keep in mind jamming the clutch in quick makes you no-wheel-drive and can help you regain control. This works best if you get it in before you get too sideways.
Practice makes perfect, find an open, smooth parking lot (no light poles) and work on recovering for big slides.
No body is born with this skill, it's learned. The good news is it's fun to learn. Be safe.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stugray]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

People that blame everything on tires just dont know anything.

Ummm... You do know what "hydroplaning" is right?

Low tread = Greater chance of hydroplaning in water
High tread = Less chance of hydroplaning in water.

None of us know if that was the cause but saying "just dont know anything." sounds more like you are talking to yourself....

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by Vincenttam

Well the tc is a fwd car. My previous can was a 97 avalon and power sliding on that thing felt more easy. Fwd felt like ass was moving for no reason with the fwd system pulling it where you wanted to go. I guess when i hydroplaned it felt completely different.

tC is a fwd car, TC is traction control

Originally Posted by R.S-HawK

Getting the tail lose with TC on and the stock tires is very, very easily done...specially, in wet conditions. I noticed this within a week of purchasing the car and swapped for PSSs the next day.

Weird... Ive driven the primacy tires for 7k miles and have not had an issue... and I drive with TC off