Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Guff

There are more ways than one to skin a cat. The Supra is an FR GT car, it always has been. It will not be 86 light, nor will it be GTR heavy. Transaxle AWD systems are great and all but they accomplish something totally different to what the Supra ethos is.

And I used to drink the Mizuno kool-aid myself back in the day, but then I started driving more cars and realized that he has a fair amount of marketing obligation. I've driven GTRs, and I love them, but to say that a fast car has to be heavy is just not true.

Because you asked, I don't want to keep going off topic. I want to keep talking about the benefits weight has for traction on a daily driven supercar by a non-professional driver, but if I don't concede the last word this will keep going. In the end we will have to see what Toyota brings.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Ill repost the link a third time because it is obvious no one read it.

Do you also buy into the idea that the torque dip is necessary for the 86's success like Tetsuya Tada poses? That with the dip the car offers better fuel economy than without?

The only point you need to make is that when it turns out heavy it won't be the end of the world and it can still be a fast fun car.

At the end of the day there's a lot of marketing coverup for a car's deficiencies, even when you're talking to the 'legit' people from the company. It's their job.

Originally Posted by Guff

Let's stay Supra specific here guys!

This isn't a car fan-fiction thread?

How can you be specific for something that doesn't exist?

Are you saying that the Supra WON'T have the GT-R's twin turbo V6 AWD?

You're oppressing my head-cannon! Reported!


In other news, relevant video, I real dig this channel.

[abraxis]

Man, if only the GTR weighed another 1,000lbs just imagine how much faster it would be!

[ajh88]

If the new Supra is anything BUT a 3400 lb 400 hp 6 cyl TT i'd be shocked. Don't think it'll be much different than a Japanese M2.

[WolfpackS2k]

I'd probably be okay with that, as long as it's cylinders are all in a line, and comes with three pedals.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I want to keep talking about the benefits weight has for traction on a daily driven supercar by a non-professional driver

By all means, continue to regale us with stories about how adding weight improves cornering and braking performance!
In the real world, adding weight reduces cornering/braking/accelerating g's.
And a "non-professional driver" will have an easier time learning how to drive at the limits of adhesion in a lighter-weight car vs. a heavier car.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ajh88

If the new Supra is anything BUT a 3400 lb 400 hp 6 cyl TT i'd be shocked. Don't think it'll be much different than a Japanese M2.

BMW uses a single turbo nowadays that's twin scroll.

If anyone remembers the fun of people having a conniption trying to understand D4-S and bitching about having to "deal with a Subaru engine" in the 86 just wait until they get a load of Valvetronic. I would heavily bet on this thing getting a B58 engine.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

By all means, continue to regale us with stories about how adding weight improves cornering and braking performance!
In the real world, adding weight reduces cornering/braking/accelerating g's.
And a "non-professional driver" will have an easier time learning how to drive at the limits of adhesion in a lighter-weight car vs. a heavier car.

Watch out for Guff. He is merciless with handing out bans. Ill choose to stay on topic when asked rather than educate someone who can't read.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by ajh88

If the new Supra is anything BUT a 3400 lb 400 hp 6 cyl TT i'd be shocked. Don't think it'll be much different than a Japanese M2.

I am really hoping Toyota gets it closer to 3200lbs. A man can dream, right?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Ill choose to stay on topic when asked rather than educate someone who can't read.

I can not only read, I can also comprehend, and sometimes even recognize when b.s. is being flung my way! Yay me!

Here's hoping for a not-too-terribly-overweight Supra! You can always add ballast to yours if it comes in too light for your liking...

[NeverInTime]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I am really hoping Toyota gets it closer to 3200lbs. A man can dream, right?

Nope. Screw optimism and hope. We need more misguided fanboism and negativity. If it isn't exactly as I want it to be it can't be good! /s

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...no-san-mr-gt-r

Ill repost the link a third time because it is obvious no one read it. Also, 2.7 seconds 0-60 in 2007 with a 193 mph top speed with a .97 lateral g. Those numbers have since improved to over one g n so on.

If the Supra hopes to live up to its predecessor then it will be heavier. Like the GTR, it will need more to do more, so inevitably the extra weight will be worth the gains, and it will also make the car accessable to your average driver like Mr. Mizuno-San mentions in the article.

You are still reversing cause and effect. The technology increases the speed, braking, handling and the weight. The weight does not increase the technology, braking, handling and speed.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You are still reversing cause and effect. The technology increases the speed, braking, handling and the weight. The weight does not increase the technology, braking, handling and speed.

I was actually saying both things. I was saying weight gain from increased tech isn't a bad thing like better resistance to brake fade from larger brakes or better handling from thicker torsion bars or more power to weight because of a larger engine or a turbo system. Im sure everyone would agree the awd system on a rally car is worth the weight.

Sometimes its better to design for larger size like how the small frontal area of the Corvette is great for aerodynamics, yet poor for cooling area, but the Camaro has more frontal area for cooling, so it isn't running into the heating problems with the same 650hp engine.

Power to weight ratio is important, but if it is at the expense of torque then that can be a problem. A sport bike might have power to weight than a fast car but the top speed can be less than the car because it lacks the needed torque where there is air resistance. Likewise, a manufacturer can design for a light car but it can be better to sacrafice weight in order to gain more torque, such that even if the lighter car has the same power to weight, the heavier car might have more potential kinda like Buggati.

That Nissan engineer was trying to also say that friction is dependent on weight because of physics, and that downforce is used to achieve weight when mass is lacking in racing like with F1, but of course this is dependent on speed. They obviously don't have the same aero as a F1 car (they don't have the tires, low weight, low center of gravity, as good a tech, etc either), so weight might not be a bad thing for safety at equal speeds. Also, that same F1 car needs to not hammer the gas at low speeds when they aren't at speeds with downforce. The GTR n other heavy cars may be more forgiving than a light car. That's what he meant about having a reasonable, drivable, super car.

I think you guys are interpreting things beyond what he is saying and what I am saying just to be rude.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I can not only read, I can also comprehend, and sometimes even recognize when b.s. is being flung my way! Yay me!

Here's hoping for a not-too-terribly-overweight Supra! You can always add ballast to yours if it comes in too light for your liking...

See above.